Word versus OpenOffice/NeoOffice

[Daniel Cohen]

I normally don't need to work with .doc files very much, but for a book
I am writing (for self-publishing print-on-demand, probably with Lulu) I
have to.

I have Word X, which more or less works with Snow Leopard. It crashes
when I cut (or copy) and paste, so I also need to use OpenOffice or
NeoOffice (not sure which I prefer).

I've run into a couple of oddities. The first is that, with the same
document, if I open it in Word, the space after a paragraph is zero. But
opening the same paragraph in either of the other two gives a 5 point
space between paragraphs. This seems weird, given that it is the same
document in both cases, though I could understand the default options
being different.

The other is something that probably was changed in the later versions
of Word. I can require that the Heading style has a section break before
it in all three programs. But in OpenOffice/NeoOffice, I can also
require that the new page is specifically a right page (or a left one).
Word X does not have this option.

An advantage of Word is that it allows indentation, etc., to be in
centimetres but spacing in points. The others, unless I've missed
something, insist on having the same units throughout.

I'm not inclined to get a new version of Word, it seems unnecessary for
the amount of use I would give it.

 

[Michael Vilain]

I normally don't need to work with .doc files very much, but for a book
I am writing (for self-publishing print-on-demand, probably with Lulu) I
have to.

I have Word X, which more or less works with Snow Leopard. It crashes
when I cut (or copy) and paste, so I also need to use OpenOffice or
NeoOffice (not sure which I prefer).

I've run into a couple of oddities. The first is that, with the same
document, if I open it in Word, the space after a paragraph is zero. But
opening the same paragraph in either of the other two gives a 5 point
space between paragraphs. This seems weird, given that it is the same
document in both cases, though I could understand the default options
being different.

The other is something that probably was changed in the later versions
of Word. I can require that the Heading style has a section break before
it in all three programs. But in OpenOffice/NeoOffice, I can also
require that the new page is specifically a right page (or a left one).
Word X does not have this option.

An advantage of Word is that it allows indentation, etc., to be in
centimetres but spacing in points. The others, unless I've missed
something, insist on having the same units throughout.

I'm not inclined to get a new version of Word, it seems unnecessary for
the amount of use I would give it.

So, what was the point of your post? You're complaining about OoO and
NewOffice on a Word news group to what end? You have no plans on buying
Word, so really any advice you might possibly get here would be of
marginal use, no?

Maybe the default answer is appropriate here:

Thank you for sharing...

 

[Daniel Cohen]

So, what was the point of your post? You're complaining about OoO and
NewOffice on a Word news group to what end? You have no plans on buying
Word, so really any advice you might possibly get here would be of
marginal use, no?

Maybe the default answer is appropriate here:

Thank you for sharing...

1. I said I was "not inclined" to buy a new version of Word. Which means
that it is possible that replies might make me change my mind. In
particular, perhaps it is available cheaper than the prices I have so
far seen. If it makes any difference, I only need Word, not the full
Office suite.

2. I pointed out a feature that Neo/Open Office have that Word X does
not. I am interested to know if this is solely because I am using an
ancient version of Word, or whether they are better in this respect than
current versions of Word.

3. I think it likely that some people on this newsgroup will have
experience of the free alternatives and might be able to solve my
problem.

 

[Daniel Cohen]

(snip)
I forgot the important

4. Word X would be adequate for my needs except that, as I mentioned,
using it on Snow Leopard I consistently get crashes on copy (or cut) and
paste.

It would be useful to know, and maybe some of the Word experts can
answer, whether this is

(a) a fundamental incompatibility between a very old version of Word and
Snow Leopard,

(b) an incompatibility with a known work-around,

(c) an oddity of my system, perahps due to my Clipboard Manager.

If I could get Word X to work without crashing I would have no need for
the free alternatives or for a newer version of Word.

 

[Michael Vilain]

(snip)
I forgot the important

4. Word X would be adequate for my needs except that, as I mentioned,
using it on Snow Leopard I consistently get crashes on copy (or cut) and
paste.

It would be useful to know, and maybe some of the Word experts can
answer, whether this is

(a) a fundamental incompatibility between a very old version of Word and
Snow Leopard,

(b) an incompatibility with a known work-around,

(c) an oddity of my system, perahps due to my Clipboard Manager.

If I could get Word X to work without crashing I would have no need for
the free alternatives or for a newer version of Word.

This probably won't help, but I got Word X 2004 to work just fine on my
MacOS X 10.6.4 system. You could probably find it on eBay or Craigslist
for not very much. If you're not willing to pay anything to upgrade, I
think you'll pretty much stuck with what you have or one of the less
optimal free alternatives. Your call on if it's worth it. You'd
probably get more traction on this topic in a Macintosh group.

 

[Daniel Cohen]

This probably won't help, but I got Word X 2004 to work just fine on my
MacOS X 10.6.4 system. You could probably find it on eBay or Craigslist
for not very much. If you're not willing to pay anything to upgrade, I
think you'll pretty much stuck with what you have or one of the less
optimal free alternatives. Your call on if it's worth it. You'd
probably get more traction on this topic in a Macintosh group.

Thanks. I think I need to investigate further whether the problem is
down to my clipboard manager. I'm inclined to suspect that it is.

This group is partly a Mac group, as its name indicates.

 

[Gareth John]

Thanks. I think I need to investigate further whether the problem is
down to my clipboard manager. I'm inclined to suspect that it is.

This group is partly a Mac group, as its name indicates.

Going back to your original post, Word X will indeed allow you to
specify a section break that begins the new section on an even- or
odd-numbered page (i.e. a left or right page). It might be that you
haven't got those commands added to the relevant ('Insert') menu.

'Tools' > 'Customize' > 'Commands' is the route.

HTH. Gareth.

 

[Daniel Cohen]

Going back to your original post, Word X will indeed allow you to
specify a section break that begins the new section on an even- or
odd-numbered page (i.e. a left or right page). It might be that you
haven't got those commands added to the relevant ('Insert') menu.

'Tools' > 'Customize' > 'Commands' is the route.

Thanks.

Another question. For some odd reason (probably related to having worked
with the document in OpenOffice or NeoOffice), Word X tells me that the
Headin style is

Normal + Font: (Asian) MS Mincho, Arial 14 pt.

I don't actually have any tet in the Asian font. But I will be putting
the document through an automatic conversion (not under my control) to
ebook format. So it might be very useful if I can remove the reference
to the Asian font. I may - not sure - still need the style to be Heading
rather than Heading1 or Heading2.

I looked through the same style in Neo and Open Office, and there was no
specifc mention of the Asian font.

 

[Gareth John]

Thanks.

Another question. For some odd reason (probably related to having worked
with the document in OpenOffice or NeoOffice), Word X tells me that the
Headin style is

Normal + Font: (Asian) MS Mincho, Arial 14 pt.

I don't actually have any tet in the Asian font. But I will be putting
the document through an automatic conversion (not under my control) to
ebook format. So it might be very useful if I can remove the reference
to the Asian font. I may - not sure - still need the style to be Heading
rather than Heading1 or Heading2.

I looked through the same style in Neo and Open Office, and there was no
specifc mention of the Asian font.

So...

* Put your cursor in one of the paragraphs in that style.

* From the 'Format' menu, pick 'Style...'

* Select the style concerned from the list on the left of the pane (it's
probably already highlighted). In your case, make sure it's 'Heading',
and not 'Heading1', for example.

* Click on the 'modify' button.

* In the resulting pane (toward the bottom), click and hold 'Format',
and drag down to 'Font...'

* Select a font, size and other details so that your 'Heading'style will
have the attibutes you want.

Click on 'OK', 'OK' and 'Apply'in the successive dialog boxes as you
retreat out of them back to the document.

That will have re-defined the font used by 'Heading'. You can do the
same to affect its paragraph style, language (for spell-checking) etc.

There's also a shortcut that works for most styles, except 'Normal' (for
some reason known only to M$oft). It requires that you have a toolbar
visible with the 'Style' box showing. The formatting toolbar usually
does, else it can be added to it.

* Select a paragraph in the target style.
* Alter the font, ruler, spacing etc. to be what you want.
* Click on the style's name in the toolbar - as if re-selecting it. Hit
'Enter' on your keyboard. A dialog box will appear, asking if you want
to update the style, or to reapply it. Choose 'update', and 'OK'.

HTH.

 

[Daniel Cohen]

So...

* Put your cursor in one of the paragraphs in that style.

* From the 'Format' menu, pick 'Style...'

* Select the style concerned from the list on the left of the pane (it's
probably already highlighted). In your case, make sure it's 'Heading',
and not 'Heading1', for example.

* Click on the 'modify' button.

* In the resulting pane (toward the bottom), click and hold 'Format',
and drag down to 'Font...'

* Select a font, size and other details so that your 'Heading'style will
have the attibutes you want.

Click on 'OK', 'OK' and 'Apply'in the successive dialog boxes as you
retreat out of them back to the document.

That will have re-defined the font used by 'Heading'. You can do the
same to affect its paragraph style, language (for spell-checking) etc.

Yes, I knew that, and had tried it.

But it doesn't completely work, which is why I asked the question.

It seems that, for some weird reason, there are *two* fonts defined in
the style, one of which is prefixed by (Asian). I can change the main
font by either of your suggested processes, but the Asian font still
remains listed.

If I had any documents with a Heading style already defined, I could use
the Organiser to replace the strange Heading style with a more
conventional one, but I don't seem to have any such documents.


It may well be that for my needs I can use Heading 1 style (which is OK)
rather than Heading. But the documentation for the conversion process I
need to use doesn't make that clear. I may simply need to ask at
smashwords which is where the conversion takes place. I was hoping it
was a very simple Word operation, which is why I asked here first.

 

[Gareth John]

A paragraph's style definition is carried in the paragraph mark at the
end of the paragraph. So to change everything that's in 'Heading' style
to 'Heading1' style, use the search-and-replace dialog to replace every
paragraph mark (i.e. ^p) that is in 'Heading' style to the same ^p but
in 'Heading1' style.

That done, you can delete the old and strangely-corrupted 'Heading'
style, then recreate and redefine it, then reapply it (by reversing the
step described).

All of this assumes that no variant text-styles have been applied
*within* the paragraphs concerned.

HTH.
Gareth.