Calendar Issue

[Jack]

Further to the post a couple of days ago "Calendar Issue" answered by
Julie

I understand by definition :
Project Calendar is the Calendar that shows up under Tools / Options /
Calendar
Task Calendar is the selected in Task Information / Advanced /
Calendar “dedicated cell”
Resource Calendar is selected in the Resource sheet “dedicated cell”.

I am producing a schedule to accompany a proposal for large project.
Different companies will be working different no of hours / day AND
some work Saturday. Some durations are specified in hours and some
durations are specified in days.
In the Gant Chart I enter the resource in the “dedicated resource
cell” and expect the finish date to look at the number of days entered
for duration, then provide a finish date based on the Resources
dedicated calendar. BUT it gives incorrect finish date.
I have tried specifying the Calendar specified for the resource in the
Task Info calendar section as well but still does not give a finish
date as expected. It still it looks at the definition of a day as per
the Tools / Options / Calendar (Project calendar) This is limiting
as the definition of a day should be what the resource will be working
particularly when there is no need for a task calendar (no
restrictions to the days worked as far as the task is concerned)
I am expecting the finish date to align the duration with the
dedicated resources calendar.
I have colleagues who have worked around this for years by fudging and
thereby creating inaccuracies because through trying to achieve the
above they continually fail.
They Give up and either :
• only specify hours , as hours don’t seem to be affected.
• Have all resources work off the project calendars times even though
the resources work different hours / day and no days / week.
To summarize from your response:
Your 1st Paragraph (below) seems to state that the duration entry will
always look at the Tools > Options Calendar to determine days, weeks
and months definition for all resources through the schedule. (This is
very limiting not being able to customize days, weeks and months to
specific resources calendars.)
It is difficult to understand given the reputation of project re
versatility, that to have true “uniqueness” to resources working
times, only hours can be specified in the duration column (not days,
weeks and months)
As per Your 2nd paragraph , I am only interested in using resource
Calendars for all tasks. I enter the resource in the applicable Gant
Chart cell, and up till receiving your response as per the 1st
paragraph expected days, weeks and months to be as per the resource
calendar I specified.

I understand everything you stated in the 3rd paragraph, but as per
your 1st paragraph, it only works correctly when the calendar
referenced is the Project calendar in Tools > Options , (not a
resource calendar with different times) again this is very limiting.
Re your 4th paragraph, I understand but I don’t need to get to the
level of task calendar limitations. On this particular presentation I
am only interested in presenting accurate finish dates over varying
unique resource calendars in days. As per 1st paragraph seems not
possible.

 

[JulieS]

Hi Jack,

My comments are in-line.

Further to the post a couple of days ago "Calendar Issue" answered by
Julie

I understand by definition :
Project Calendar is the Calendar that shows up under Tools / Options
/
Calendar.

[Julie] No, working time in the Project calendar is defined in Tools >
Change Working time. That calendar is set as the Project calendar in
Project > Project Information. The definition of number of hours that
make up a "day", number of hours in a "week" and number of days in a
month is defined in Tools > Options, Calendar tab. The definition of
days, weeks, and months should match the number of working hours in a
day as defined in Tools > Change working time. However, Project is
still calculating everything to the minute. So, although you define a
day as 8 hours, Project is still counting 480 minutes -- Project just
allows you to use "day" as another way of expressing 480 minutes.

Task Calendar is the selected in Task Information / Advanced /
Calendar “dedicated cell”.

[Julie] True.

Resource Calendar is selected in the Resource sheet “dedicated cell”.

[Julie] No, not quite. The base calendar for the resource is selected
on the Resource Sheet but you can modify an individual's calendar by
double-clicking on the resource's name and editing the working time
calendar in the Resource Information dialog box. A resource may work
more hours per day or fewer hours per day or more days per week. That
needs to be set in the resource's calendar.

I am producing a schedule to accompany a proposal for large project.
Different companies will be working different no of hours / day AND
some work Saturday. Some durations are specified in hours and some
durations are specified in days.

[Julie] Again, not a problem. You can specify duration in minutes,
hours, days, weeks, or months. How you define days, weeks, and months
should be driven by common agreement between the parties.

In the Gant Chart I enter the resource in the “dedicated resource
cell” and expect the finish date to look at the number of days
entered
for duration, then provide a finish date based on the Resources
dedicated calendar.

[Julie] No, not quite. When you assign a resource to a task, Project
will, by default calculate the work for that resource based upon the
task duration * the resource assignment. So if you have a task with a
3 day duration and the definition of a day is 8 hours that equals 24
hours. If you assign a resource who works 9 hours per day, they will
finish the 24 hours of work early on day three. Showing the time as
well as date may help. If a task is 3 days in duration originally
scheduled for Thursday, Friday, and Monday (because the project
calendar has Sat & Sunday as nonworking and you assign a resource
whose working calendar is Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, the finish
date of the task will adjust to Saturday.

BUT it gives incorrect finish date.

I have tried specifying the Calendar specified for the resource in
the
Task Info calendar section as well but still does not give a finish
date as expected.

[Julie] No, it is set in the Resource Sheet.

It still it looks at the definition of a day as per
the Tools / Options / Calendar (Project calendar)

[Julie] I think you are not looking at the full picture which
includes not only task duration but work and assignment units.

This is limiting
as the definition of a day should be what the resource will be
working

[Julie] No, the resource works during time defined on his/her working
calendar. Create two tasks each 2 days (8 hours per day) in length
linked Finish to Start. Assuming a "standard" calendar of 8 hours per
day (8:00 am to 5:00 pm) Monday through Friday. If Task A starts on
Monday and is 2 days in duration, it will end Tuesday at 5:00 pm.
Task B will start Wednesday at 8:00 am and end Thursday at 5:00 pm.
Assign a resource who works 9 hours per day at 100% assignment units
to the task -- his/her calendar says 8:00 am to 6:00 pm. Task A will
start at 8:00 am on Monday and end at 4:00 pm on Tuesday afternoon --
the 16 hours of work (2 days * 8 hours) finishes before 5:00 pm. Task
B starts at 4:00 pm on Tuesday afternoon and ends at 2:00 pm on
Thursday. The duration of the task is still 2 days -- still 16 hours
per task based upon the definiton of 1 day = 8 hours.

particularly when there is no need for a task calendar (no
restrictions to the days worked as far as the task is concerned)
I am expecting the finish date to align the duration with the
dedicated resources calendar.

[Julie] It does. The resource works 9 hours per day completing the 16
hours of work early on Tuesday (task A) and early on Thursday (task
B).

I have colleagues who have worked around this for years by fudging and
thereby creating inaccuracies because through trying to achieve the
above they continually fail.
They Give up and either :
• only specify hours , as hours don’t seem to be affected.

[Julie] They are not understanding that duration is *not* the entire
picture. They need to look at work and look at not just the *day* a
task starts and ends but the time.

• Have all resources work off the project calendars times even though
the resources work different hours / day and no days / week.

[Julie] No. If resources work different hours and days of the week,
that needs to be reflected in the resource's calendar.

To summarize from your response:
Your 1st Paragraph (below) seems to state that the duration entry will
always look at the Tools > Options Calendar to determine days, weeks
and months definition for all resources through the schedule.

[Julie] No. Project will use the number of hours per day, hours per
week, and days per month to calculate the number of hours of duration.
When the work during that duration takes place is based upon the
resource's calendar. If a resource works 4 hours per day and you set
a task with 1 day duration (1 day = 8 hours) the task will start day
one and end day two as the resource can only accomplish 4 hours per
day.

(This is
very limiting not being able to customize days, weeks and months to
specific resources calendars.)

It is difficult to understand given the reputation of project re
versatility, that to have true “uniqueness” to resources working
times, only hours can be specified in the duration column (not days,
weeks and months)

[Julie] No.

As per Your 2nd paragraph , I am only interested in using resource
Calendars for all tasks. I enter the resource in the applicable Gant
Chart cell, and up till receiving your response as per the 1st
paragraph expected days, weeks and months to be as per the resource
calendar I specified.

[Julie] It is, but you need to change the resource's working calendar.

I understand everything you stated in the 3rd paragraph, but as per
your 1st paragraph, it only works correctly when the calendar
referenced is the Project calendar in Tools > Options , (not a
resource calendar with different times) again this is very limiting.
Re your 4th paragraph, I understand but I don’t need to get to the
level of task calendar limitations. On this particular presentation I
am only interested in presenting accurate finish dates over varying
unique resource calendars in days. As per 1st paragraph seems not
possible.

[Julie] Yes, it is. I'm going to suggest you step through Mike
Glen's excellent series of on-line tutorials on MS Project -- I think
it will help a great deal. Mike's tutorials can be found at
http://project.mvps.org/mike's_tutorials.htm

Pay particular attention to Lesson 5.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie
Project MVP

Visit http://project.mvps.org/ for the FAQs and additional information
about Microsoft Project

 

[Jack]

Hi Julie,
I still have to read and reread what u hasve said to fully understand. I
will look at the tutorial too , thanks.

I am a part time , low level MS Project user, but I know many colleagues
that use Project to a very low level of understanding , hence creating
"fudging" to achieve presentation. I will pass on my findings to others
following practise of your info.
Am I able to send a file to you to give example of other "seeming" probs
with Project?

--
Thanks,

Jack

Hi Jack,

My comments are in-line.

Further to the post a couple of days ago "Calendar Issue" answered by
Julie

I understand by definition :
Project Calendar is the Calendar that shows up under Tools / Options
/
Calendar.

[Julie] No, working time in the Project calendar is defined in Tools >
Change Working time. That calendar is set as the Project calendar in
Project > Project Information. The definition of number of hours that
make up a "day", number of hours in a "week" and number of days in a
month is defined in Tools > Options, Calendar tab. The definition of
days, weeks, and months should match the number of working hours in a
day as defined in Tools > Change working time. However, Project is
still calculating everything to the minute. So, although you define a
day as 8 hours, Project is still counting 480 minutes -- Project just
allows you to use "day" as another way of expressing 480 minutes.

Task Calendar is the selected in Task Information / Advanced /
Calendar “dedicated cellâ€.

[Julie] True.

Resource Calendar is selected in the Resource sheet “dedicated cellâ€.

[Julie] No, not quite. The base calendar for the resource is selected
on the Resource Sheet but you can modify an individual's calendar by
double-clicking on the resource's name and editing the working time
calendar in the Resource Information dialog box. A resource may work
more hours per day or fewer hours per day or more days per week. That
needs to be set in the resource's calendar.

I am producing a schedule to accompany a proposal for large project.
Different companies will be working different no of hours / day AND
some work Saturday. Some durations are specified in hours and some
durations are specified in days.

[Julie] Again, not a problem. You can specify duration in minutes,
hours, days, weeks, or months. How you define days, weeks, and months
should be driven by common agreement between the parties.

In the Gant Chart I enter the resource in the “dedicated resource
cell†and expect the finish date to look at the number of days
entered
for duration, then provide a finish date based on the Resources
dedicated calendar.

[Julie] No, not quite. When you assign a resource to a task, Project
will, by default calculate the work for that resource based upon the
task duration * the resource assignment. So if you have a task with a
3 day duration and the definition of a day is 8 hours that equals 24
hours. If you assign a resource who works 9 hours per day, they will
finish the 24 hours of work early on day three. Showing the time as
well as date may help. If a task is 3 days in duration originally
scheduled for Thursday, Friday, and Monday (because the project
calendar has Sat & Sunday as nonworking and you assign a resource
whose working calendar is Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, the finish
date of the task will adjust to Saturday.

BUT it gives incorrect finish date.

I have tried specifying the Calendar specified for the resource in
the
Task Info calendar section as well but still does not give a finish
date as expected.

[Julie] No, it is set in the Resource Sheet.

It still it looks at the definition of a day as per
the Tools / Options / Calendar (Project calendar)

[Julie] I think you are not looking at the full picture which
includes not only task duration but work and assignment units.

This is limiting
as the definition of a day should be what the resource will be
working

[Julie] No, the resource works during time defined on his/her working
calendar. Create two tasks each 2 days (8 hours per day) in length
linked Finish to Start. Assuming a "standard" calendar of 8 hours per
day (8:00 am to 5:00 pm) Monday through Friday. If Task A starts on
Monday and is 2 days in duration, it will end Tuesday at 5:00 pm.
Task B will start Wednesday at 8:00 am and end Thursday at 5:00 pm.
Assign a resource who works 9 hours per day at 100% assignment units
to the task -- his/her calendar says 8:00 am to 6:00 pm. Task A will
start at 8:00 am on Monday and end at 4:00 pm on Tuesday afternoon --
the 16 hours of work (2 days * 8 hours) finishes before 5:00 pm. Task
B starts at 4:00 pm on Tuesday afternoon and ends at 2:00 pm on
Thursday. The duration of the task is still 2 days -- still 16 hours
per task based upon the definiton of 1 day = 8 hours.

particularly when there is no need for a task calendar (no
restrictions to the days worked as far as the task is concerned)
I am expecting the finish date to align the duration with the
dedicated resources calendar.

[Julie] It does. The resource works 9 hours per day completing the 16
hours of work early on Tuesday (task A) and early on Thursday (task
B).

I have colleagues who have worked around this for years by fudging and
thereby creating inaccuracies because through trying to achieve the
above they continually fail.
They Give up and either :
• only specify hours , as hours don’t seem to be affected.

[Julie] They are not understanding that duration is *not* the entire
picture. They need to look at work and look at not just the *day* a
task starts and ends but the time.

• Have all resources work off the project calendars times even though
the resources work different hours / day and no days / week.

[Julie] No. If resources work different hours and days of the week,
that needs to be reflected in the resource's calendar.

To summarize from your response:
Your 1st Paragraph (below) seems to state that the duration entry will
always look at the Tools > Options Calendar to determine days, weeks
and months definition for all resources through the schedule.

[Julie] No. Project will use the number of hours per day, hours per
week, and days per month to calculate the number of hours of duration.
When the work during that duration takes place is based upon the
resource's calendar. If a resource works 4 hours per day and you set
a task with 1 day duration (1 day = 8 hours) the task will start day
one and end day two as the resource can only accomplish 4 hours per
day.

(This is
very limiting not being able to customize days, weeks and months to
specific resources calendars.)

It is difficult to understand given the reputation of project re
versatility, that to have true “uniqueness†to resources working
times, only hours can be specified in the duration column (not days,
weeks and months)

[Julie] No.

As per Your 2nd paragraph , I am only interested in using resource
Calendars for all tasks. I enter the resource in the applicable Gant
Chart cell, and up till receiving your response as per the 1st
paragraph expected days, weeks and months to be as per the resource
calendar I specified.

[Julie] It is, but you need to change the resource's working calendar.

I understand everything you stated in the 3rd paragraph, but as per
your 1st paragraph, it only works correctly when the calendar
referenced is the Project calendar in Tools > Options , (not a
resource calendar with different times) again this is very limiting.
Re your 4th paragraph, I understand but I don’t need to get to the
level of task calendar limitations. On this particular presentation I
am only interested in presenting accurate finish dates over varying
unique resource calendars in days. As per 1st paragraph seems not
possible.

[Julie] Yes, it is. I'm going to suggest you step through Mike
Glen's excellent series of on-line tutorials on MS Project -- I think
it will help a great deal. Mike's tutorials can be found at
http://project.mvps.org/mike's_tutorials.htm

Pay particular attention to Lesson 5.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie
Project MVP

Visit http://project.mvps.org/ for the FAQs and additional information
about Microsoft Project

 

[Jack]

Hi Julie,
One important clarification:

[Julie] Again, not a problem. You can specify duration in minutes,
hours, days, weeks, or months. How you define days, weeks, and months
should be driven by common agreement between the parties.

All parties will need to agree the definition of days , weeks and months ,
and the agreement "periods" for these will be set up in the Tools / Options /
Calendar.
In other words for the complete project there can only be one definition of :
* number of hours in a day
* number of hours in a week
* days in a month

Is this correct. If so It has never been put so bluntly (or clearly) in any
Project textbook I have read.

Thanks,

Jack

Hi Julie,
I still have to read and reread what u hasve said to fully understand. I
will look at the tutorial too , thanks.

I am a part time , low level MS Project user, but I know many colleagues
that use Project to a very low level of understanding , hence creating
"fudging" to achieve presentation. I will pass on my findings to others
following practise of your info.
Am I able to send a file to you to give example of other "seeming" probs
with Project?

--
Thanks,

Jack

Hi Jack,

My comments are in-line.

Further to the post a couple of days ago "Calendar Issue" answered by
Julie

I understand by definition :
Project Calendar is the Calendar that shows up under Tools / Options
/
Calendar.

[Julie] No, working time in the Project calendar is defined in Tools >
Change Working time. That calendar is set as the Project calendar in
Project > Project Information. The definition of number of hours that
make up a "day", number of hours in a "week" and number of days in a
month is defined in Tools > Options, Calendar tab. The definition of
days, weeks, and months should match the number of working hours in a
day as defined in Tools > Change working time. However, Project is
still calculating everything to the minute. So, although you define a
day as 8 hours, Project is still counting 480 minutes -- Project just
allows you to use "day" as another way of expressing 480 minutes.

Task Calendar is the selected in Task Information / Advanced /
Calendar “dedicated cellâ€.

[Julie] True.

Resource Calendar is selected in the Resource sheet “dedicated cellâ€.

[Julie] No, not quite. The base calendar for the resource is selected
on the Resource Sheet but you can modify an individual's calendar by
double-clicking on the resource's name and editing the working time
calendar in the Resource Information dialog box. A resource may work
more hours per day or fewer hours per day or more days per week. That
needs to be set in the resource's calendar.

I am producing a schedule to accompany a proposal for large project.
Different companies will be working different no of hours / day AND
some work Saturday. Some durations are specified in hours and some
durations are specified in days.

[Julie] Again, not a problem. You can specify duration in minutes,
hours, days, weeks, or months. How you define days, weeks, and months
should be driven by common agreement between the parties.

In the Gant Chart I enter the resource in the “dedicated resource
cell†and expect the finish date to look at the number of days
entered
for duration, then provide a finish date based on the Resources
dedicated calendar.

[Julie] No, not quite. When you assign a resource to a task, Project
will, by default calculate the work for that resource based upon the
task duration * the resource assignment. So if you have a task with a
3 day duration and the definition of a day is 8 hours that equals 24
hours. If you assign a resource who works 9 hours per day, they will
finish the 24 hours of work early on day three. Showing the time as
well as date may help. If a task is 3 days in duration originally
scheduled for Thursday, Friday, and Monday (because the project
calendar has Sat & Sunday as nonworking and you assign a resource
whose working calendar is Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, the finish
date of the task will adjust to Saturday.

BUT it gives incorrect finish date.

I have tried specifying the Calendar specified for the resource in
the
Task Info calendar section as well but still does not give a finish
date as expected.

[Julie] No, it is set in the Resource Sheet.

It still it looks at the definition of a day as per
the Tools / Options / Calendar (Project calendar)

[Julie] I think you are not looking at the full picture which
includes not only task duration but work and assignment units.

This is limiting
as the definition of a day should be what the resource will be
working

[Julie] No, the resource works during time defined on his/her working
calendar. Create two tasks each 2 days (8 hours per day) in length
linked Finish to Start. Assuming a "standard" calendar of 8 hours per
day (8:00 am to 5:00 pm) Monday through Friday. If Task A starts on
Monday and is 2 days in duration, it will end Tuesday at 5:00 pm.
Task B will start Wednesday at 8:00 am and end Thursday at 5:00 pm.
Assign a resource who works 9 hours per day at 100% assignment units
to the task -- his/her calendar says 8:00 am to 6:00 pm. Task A will
start at 8:00 am on Monday and end at 4:00 pm on Tuesday afternoon --
the 16 hours of work (2 days * 8 hours) finishes before 5:00 pm. Task
B starts at 4:00 pm on Tuesday afternoon and ends at 2:00 pm on
Thursday. The duration of the task is still 2 days -- still 16 hours
per task based upon the definiton of 1 day = 8 hours.

particularly when there is no need for a task calendar (no
restrictions to the days worked as far as the task is concerned)
I am expecting the finish date to align the duration with the
dedicated resources calendar.

[Julie] It does. The resource works 9 hours per day completing the 16
hours of work early on Tuesday (task A) and early on Thursday (task
B).

I have colleagues who have worked around this for years by fudging and
thereby creating inaccuracies because through trying to achieve the
above they continually fail.
They Give up and either :
• only specify hours , as hours don’t seem to be affected.

[Julie] They are not understanding that duration is *not* the entire
picture. They need to look at work and look at not just the *day* a
task starts and ends but the time.

• Have all resources work off the project calendars times even though
the resources work different hours / day and no days / week.

[Julie] No. If resources work different hours and days of the week,
that needs to be reflected in the resource's calendar.

To summarize from your response:
Your 1st Paragraph (below) seems to state that the duration entry will
always look at the Tools > Options Calendar to determine days, weeks
and months definition for all resources through the schedule.

[Julie] No. Project will use the number of hours per day, hours per
week, and days per month to calculate the number of hours of duration.
When the work during that duration takes place is based upon the
resource's calendar. If a resource works 4 hours per day and you set
a task with 1 day duration (1 day = 8 hours) the task will start day
one and end day two as the resource can only accomplish 4 hours per
day.

(This is
very limiting not being able to customize days, weeks and months to
specific resources calendars.)

It is difficult to understand given the reputation of project re
versatility, that to have true “uniqueness†to resources working
times, only hours can be specified in the duration column (not days,
weeks and months)

[Julie] No.

As per Your 2nd paragraph , I am only interested in using resource
Calendars for all tasks. I enter the resource in the applicable Gant
Chart cell, and up till receiving your response as per the 1st
paragraph expected days, weeks and months to be as per the resource
calendar I specified.

[Julie] It is, but you need to change the resource's working calendar.

I understand everything you stated in the 3rd paragraph, but as per
your 1st paragraph, it only works correctly when the calendar
referenced is the Project calendar in Tools > Options , (not a
resource calendar with different times) again this is very limiting.
Re your 4th paragraph, I understand but I don’t need to get to the
level of task calendar limitations. On this particular presentation I
am only interested in presenting accurate finish dates over varying
unique resource calendars in days. As per 1st paragraph seems not
possible.

[Julie] Yes, it is. I'm going to suggest you step through Mike
Glen's excellent series of on-line tutorials on MS Project -- I think
it will help a great deal. Mike's tutorials can be found at
http://project.mvps.org/mike's_tutorials.htm

Pay particular attention to Lesson 5.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie
Project MVP

Visit http://project.mvps.org/ for the FAQs and additional information
about Microsoft Project

 

[JulieS]

Hi Jack,

If multiple parties are working on a project together and are providing
estimates for work or duration -- it is very important that the terms are
understood and agreed upon by all parties. It can make a significant
difference if when I say "that task will take 3 days" and I mean 3 - 10 hour
days but you mean 3 - 8 hour days.

Julie

Hi Julie,
One important clarification:

[Julie] Again, not a problem. You can specify duration in minutes,
hours, days, weeks, or months. How you define days, weeks, and months
should be driven by common agreement between the parties.

All parties will need to agree the definition of days , weeks and months ,
and the agreement "periods" for these will be set up in the Tools / Options /
Calendar.
In other words for the complete project there can only be one definition of :
* number of hours in a day
* number of hours in a week
* days in a month

Is this correct. If so It has never been put so bluntly (or clearly) in any
Project textbook I have read.

Thanks,

Jack

Hi Julie,
I still have to read and reread what u hasve said to fully understand. I
will look at the tutorial too , thanks.

I am a part time , low level MS Project user, but I know many colleagues
that use Project to a very low level of understanding , hence creating
"fudging" to achieve presentation. I will pass on my findings to others
following practise of your info.
Am I able to send a file to you to give example of other "seeming" probs
with Project?

--
Thanks,

Jack

Hi Jack,

My comments are in-line.


Further to the post a couple of days ago "Calendar Issue" answered by
Julie

I understand by definition :
Project Calendar is the Calendar that shows up under Tools / Options
/
Calendar.

[Julie] No, working time in the Project calendar is defined in Tools >
Change Working time. That calendar is set as the Project calendar in
Project > Project Information. The definition of number of hours that
make up a "day", number of hours in a "week" and number of days in a
month is defined in Tools > Options, Calendar tab. The definition of
days, weeks, and months should match the number of working hours in a
day as defined in Tools > Change working time. However, Project is
still calculating everything to the minute. So, although you define a
day as 8 hours, Project is still counting 480 minutes -- Project just
allows you to use "day" as another way of expressing 480 minutes.


Task Calendar is the selected in Task Information / Advanced /
Calendar “dedicated cellâ€.

[Julie] True.

Resource Calendar is selected in the Resource sheet “dedicated cellâ€.

[Julie] No, not quite. The base calendar for the resource is selected
on the Resource Sheet but you can modify an individual's calendar by
double-clicking on the resource's name and editing the working time
calendar in the Resource Information dialog box. A resource may work
more hours per day or fewer hours per day or more days per week. That
needs to be set in the resource's calendar.

I am producing a schedule to accompany a proposal for large project.
Different companies will be working different no of hours / day AND
some work Saturday. Some durations are specified in hours and some
durations are specified in days.

[Julie] Again, not a problem. You can specify duration in minutes,
hours, days, weeks, or months. How you define days, weeks, and months
should be driven by common agreement between the parties.

In the Gant Chart I enter the resource in the “dedicated resource
cell†and expect the finish date to look at the number of days
entered
for duration, then provide a finish date based on the Resources
dedicated calendar.

[Julie] No, not quite. When you assign a resource to a task, Project
will, by default calculate the work for that resource based upon the
task duration * the resource assignment. So if you have a task with a
3 day duration and the definition of a day is 8 hours that equals 24
hours. If you assign a resource who works 9 hours per day, they will
finish the 24 hours of work early on day three. Showing the time as
well as date may help. If a task is 3 days in duration originally
scheduled for Thursday, Friday, and Monday (because the project
calendar has Sat & Sunday as nonworking and you assign a resource
whose working calendar is Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, the finish
date of the task will adjust to Saturday.

BUT it gives incorrect finish date.

I have tried specifying the Calendar specified for the resource in
the
Task Info calendar section as well but still does not give a finish
date as expected.

[Julie] No, it is set in the Resource Sheet.

It still it looks at the definition of a day as per
the Tools / Options / Calendar (Project calendar)

[Julie] I think you are not looking at the full picture which
includes not only task duration but work and assignment units.

This is limiting
as the definition of a day should be what the resource will be
working

[Julie] No, the resource works during time defined on his/her working
calendar. Create two tasks each 2 days (8 hours per day) in length
linked Finish to Start. Assuming a "standard" calendar of 8 hours per
day (8:00 am to 5:00 pm) Monday through Friday. If Task A starts on
Monday and is 2 days in duration, it will end Tuesday at 5:00 pm.
Task B will start Wednesday at 8:00 am and end Thursday at 5:00 pm.
Assign a resource who works 9 hours per day at 100% assignment units
to the task -- his/her calendar says 8:00 am to 6:00 pm. Task A will
start at 8:00 am on Monday and end at 4:00 pm on Tuesday afternoon --
the 16 hours of work (2 days * 8 hours) finishes before 5:00 pm. Task
B starts at 4:00 pm on Tuesday afternoon and ends at 2:00 pm on
Thursday. The duration of the task is still 2 days -- still 16 hours
per task based upon the definiton of 1 day = 8 hours.

particularly when there is no need for a task calendar (no
restrictions to the days worked as far as the task is concerned)
I am expecting the finish date to align the duration with the
dedicated resources calendar.

[Julie] It does. The resource works 9 hours per day completing the 16
hours of work early on Tuesday (task A) and early on Thursday (task
B).

I have colleagues who have worked around this for years by fudging and
thereby creating inaccuracies because through trying to achieve the
above they continually fail.
They Give up and either :
• only specify hours , as hours don’t seem to be affected.

[Julie] They are not understanding that duration is *not* the entire
picture. They need to look at work and look at not just the *day* a
task starts and ends but the time.

• Have all resources work off the project calendars times even though
the resources work different hours / day and no days / week.

[Julie] No. If resources work different hours and days of the week,
that needs to be reflected in the resource's calendar.

To summarize from your response:
Your 1st Paragraph (below) seems to state that the duration entry will
always look at the Tools > Options Calendar to determine days, weeks
and months definition for all resources through the schedule.

[Julie] No. Project will use the number of hours per day, hours per
week, and days per month to calculate the number of hours of duration.
When the work during that duration takes place is based upon the
resource's calendar. If a resource works 4 hours per day and you set
a task with 1 day duration (1 day = 8 hours) the task will start day
one and end day two as the resource can only accomplish 4 hours per
day.

(This is
very limiting not being able to customize days, weeks and months to
specific resources calendars.)

It is difficult to understand given the reputation of project re
versatility, that to have true “uniqueness†to resources working
times, only hours can be specified in the duration column (not days,
weeks and months)

[Julie] No.

As per Your 2nd paragraph , I am only interested in using resource
Calendars for all tasks. I enter the resource in the applicable Gant
Chart cell, and up till receiving your response as per the 1st
paragraph expected days, weeks and months to be as per the resource
calendar I specified.

[Julie] It is, but you need to change the resource's working calendar.

I understand everything you stated in the 3rd paragraph, but as per
your 1st paragraph, it only works correctly when the calendar
referenced is the Project calendar in Tools > Options , (not a
resource calendar with different times) again this is very limiting.
Re your 4th paragraph, I understand but I don’t need to get to the
level of task calendar limitations. On this particular presentation I
am only interested in presenting accurate finish dates over varying
unique resource calendars in days. As per 1st paragraph seems not
possible.

[Julie] Yes, it is. I'm going to suggest you step through Mike
Glen's excellent series of on-line tutorials on MS Project -- I think
it will help a great deal. Mike's tutorials can be found at
http://project.mvps.org/mike's_tutorials.htm

Pay particular attention to Lesson 5.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie
Project MVP

Visit http://project.mvps.org/ for the FAQs and additional information
about Microsoft Project

 

[JulieS]

Hi Jack,

You're most welcome. As far as sending me files, I would prefer you at
least initially post your questions here. That way you can benefit from many
people's thoughts. If things get to the point that "seeing" what is going on
makes sense, I'm sure one of us will offer to take a look at your file. All
of the regular posters here are volunteers so we fit the responses around our
'real jobs'.

Julie

Hi Julie,
I still have to read and reread what u hasve said to fully understand. I
will look at the tutorial too , thanks.

I am a part time , low level MS Project user, but I know many colleagues
that use Project to a very low level of understanding , hence creating
"fudging" to achieve presentation. I will pass on my findings to others
following practise of your info.
Am I able to send a file to you to give example of other "seeming" probs
with Project?

--
Thanks,

Jack

Hi Jack,

My comments are in-line.

Further to the post a couple of days ago "Calendar Issue" answered by
Julie

I understand by definition :
Project Calendar is the Calendar that shows up under Tools / Options
/
Calendar.

[Julie] No, working time in the Project calendar is defined in Tools >
Change Working time. That calendar is set as the Project calendar in
Project > Project Information. The definition of number of hours that
make up a "day", number of hours in a "week" and number of days in a
month is defined in Tools > Options, Calendar tab. The definition of
days, weeks, and months should match the number of working hours in a
day as defined in Tools > Change working time. However, Project is
still calculating everything to the minute. So, although you define a
day as 8 hours, Project is still counting 480 minutes -- Project just
allows you to use "day" as another way of expressing 480 minutes.

Task Calendar is the selected in Task Information / Advanced /
Calendar “dedicated cellâ€.

[Julie] True.

Resource Calendar is selected in the Resource sheet “dedicated cellâ€.

[Julie] No, not quite. The base calendar for the resource is selected
on the Resource Sheet but you can modify an individual's calendar by
double-clicking on the resource's name and editing the working time
calendar in the Resource Information dialog box. A resource may work
more hours per day or fewer hours per day or more days per week. That
needs to be set in the resource's calendar.

I am producing a schedule to accompany a proposal for large project.
Different companies will be working different no of hours / day AND
some work Saturday. Some durations are specified in hours and some
durations are specified in days.

[Julie] Again, not a problem. You can specify duration in minutes,
hours, days, weeks, or months. How you define days, weeks, and months
should be driven by common agreement between the parties.

In the Gant Chart I enter the resource in the “dedicated resource
cell†and expect the finish date to look at the number of days
entered
for duration, then provide a finish date based on the Resources
dedicated calendar.

[Julie] No, not quite. When you assign a resource to a task, Project
will, by default calculate the work for that resource based upon the
task duration * the resource assignment. So if you have a task with a
3 day duration and the definition of a day is 8 hours that equals 24
hours. If you assign a resource who works 9 hours per day, they will
finish the 24 hours of work early on day three. Showing the time as
well as date may help. If a task is 3 days in duration originally
scheduled for Thursday, Friday, and Monday (because the project
calendar has Sat & Sunday as nonworking and you assign a resource
whose working calendar is Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, the finish
date of the task will adjust to Saturday.

BUT it gives incorrect finish date.

I have tried specifying the Calendar specified for the resource in
the
Task Info calendar section as well but still does not give a finish
date as expected.

[Julie] No, it is set in the Resource Sheet.

It still it looks at the definition of a day as per
the Tools / Options / Calendar (Project calendar)

[Julie] I think you are not looking at the full picture which
includes not only task duration but work and assignment units.

This is limiting
as the definition of a day should be what the resource will be
working

[Julie] No, the resource works during time defined on his/her working
calendar. Create two tasks each 2 days (8 hours per day) in length
linked Finish to Start. Assuming a "standard" calendar of 8 hours per
day (8:00 am to 5:00 pm) Monday through Friday. If Task A starts on
Monday and is 2 days in duration, it will end Tuesday at 5:00 pm.
Task B will start Wednesday at 8:00 am and end Thursday at 5:00 pm.
Assign a resource who works 9 hours per day at 100% assignment units
to the task -- his/her calendar says 8:00 am to 6:00 pm. Task A will
start at 8:00 am on Monday and end at 4:00 pm on Tuesday afternoon --
the 16 hours of work (2 days * 8 hours) finishes before 5:00 pm. Task
B starts at 4:00 pm on Tuesday afternoon and ends at 2:00 pm on
Thursday. The duration of the task is still 2 days -- still 16 hours
per task based upon the definiton of 1 day = 8 hours.

particularly when there is no need for a task calendar (no
restrictions to the days worked as far as the task is concerned)
I am expecting the finish date to align the duration with the
dedicated resources calendar.

[Julie] It does. The resource works 9 hours per day completing the 16
hours of work early on Tuesday (task A) and early on Thursday (task
B).

I have colleagues who have worked around this for years by fudging and
thereby creating inaccuracies because through trying to achieve the
above they continually fail.
They Give up and either :
• only specify hours , as hours don’t seem to be affected.

[Julie] They are not understanding that duration is *not* the entire
picture. They need to look at work and look at not just the *day* a
task starts and ends but the time.

• Have all resources work off the project calendars times even though
the resources work different hours / day and no days / week.

[Julie] No. If resources work different hours and days of the week,
that needs to be reflected in the resource's calendar.

To summarize from your response:
Your 1st Paragraph (below) seems to state that the duration entry will
always look at the Tools > Options Calendar to determine days, weeks
and months definition for all resources through the schedule.

[Julie] No. Project will use the number of hours per day, hours per
week, and days per month to calculate the number of hours of duration.
When the work during that duration takes place is based upon the
resource's calendar. If a resource works 4 hours per day and you set
a task with 1 day duration (1 day = 8 hours) the task will start day
one and end day two as the resource can only accomplish 4 hours per
day.

(This is
very limiting not being able to customize days, weeks and months to
specific resources calendars.)

It is difficult to understand given the reputation of project re
versatility, that to have true “uniqueness†to resources working
times, only hours can be specified in the duration column (not days,
weeks and months)

[Julie] No.

As per Your 2nd paragraph , I am only interested in using resource
Calendars for all tasks. I enter the resource in the applicable Gant
Chart cell, and up till receiving your response as per the 1st
paragraph expected days, weeks and months to be as per the resource
calendar I specified.

[Julie] It is, but you need to change the resource's working calendar.

I understand everything you stated in the 3rd paragraph, but as per
your 1st paragraph, it only works correctly when the calendar
referenced is the Project calendar in Tools > Options , (not a
resource calendar with different times) again this is very limiting.
Re your 4th paragraph, I understand but I don’t need to get to the
level of task calendar limitations. On this particular presentation I
am only interested in presenting accurate finish dates over varying
unique resource calendars in days. As per 1st paragraph seems not
possible.

[Julie] Yes, it is. I'm going to suggest you step through Mike
Glen's excellent series of on-line tutorials on MS Project -- I think
it will help a great deal. Mike's tutorials can be found at
http://project.mvps.org/mike's_tutorials.htm

Pay particular attention to Lesson 5.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie
Project MVP

Visit http://project.mvps.org/ for the FAQs and additional information
about Microsoft Project