Outline pane STILL clips text horizontally in 2004

[Kevin Camera]

This is a continuation of a complaint I made a while ago, which can be
found here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...09180813.3867b066%40posting.google.com&rnum=7

I just downloaded the Office 2004 Test Drive, and this bug IS STILL
HERE. I still want to believe that if this was a native bug in
PowerPoint, others would be commenting on this problem as well. But a
few months back, I bought a new iMac, and I have the exact same bug on
that machine. In fact, when I upgraded to Panther, I completely
reformatted my hard drives, and the bug still appeared on a fresh
install. I really don't think this is specific to my machine -- maybe
99.9% of the other users just don't use PowerPoint the way I do...

To summarize, in any view that uses the outline pane (either Normal or
Outline mode), the text is clipped in the horizontal direction.
Meaning, the text does not wrap properly at the right edge, and even
worse, the horizontal scrollbar does not work. Even when I scroll all
the way from left to right, the view only moves by a few pixels, and
the text is cut off.

This clip point is somehow determined by a hard-coded value
proportional to the zoom level. If I zoom in, the text clips farther
right than before, etc. So basically, the only way I can use the
program is to zoom out far enough that the text wraps properly.

I really want to buy Office 2004, but there is no way I will ever
spend the money unless this gets fixed. Please Microsoft, have
someone work to fix this bug even though I don't have any support
privileges with the test drive. I will not buy the product under the
wish that this gets fixed.

Thanks!

 

[Kevin Camera]

Just another bump here, plus some extra info. I just verified this
same behavior on a couple other friends' Macs (there aren't a whole
lot around my office). So I have almost no doubt this is a bug in
PowerPoint. I guess I really do just use the program weirder than
most people...

If anyone has any thoughts on how I can communicate this directly to
Microsoft, I would also appreciate that. As I said in the first
message, I really won't purchase a defective (in my opinion) product
in the hopes that it will be patched later. And otherwise, I'm
looking forward to getting it!

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Hi Kevin,

I see what you mean about the wrapping. It just doesn't flow nicely in the
left pane once you make the width of the pane small enough.

It appears that the designer of the view figured that if you need a larger
view of the outline that you would simply choose Outline view.

You send send feedback directly to the Macintosh Business unit by using the
feedback option on the Help menu which uses this URL:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/feedback/suggestion.asp

You won't get a personal reply, but this is the kind of thing that they are
interested in knowing so they can put someone to work on it to fix it if
they think the problem ought to be fixed. Feedback sent to that URL is read
by the product manager and the programmers.

I'm not certain that they would consider this to be a bug since there is
Outline view, but it would be a good idea to let them know your thoughts
about the way you would like to see text wrap in Normal view.

-Jim

Just another bump here, plus some extra info. I just verified this
same behavior on a couple other friends' Macs (there aren't a whole
lot around my office). So I have almost no doubt this is a bug in
PowerPoint. I guess I really do just use the program weirder than
most people...

If anyone has any thoughts on how I can communicate this directly to
Microsoft, I would also appreciate that. As I said in the first
message, I really won't purchase a defective (in my opinion) product
in the hopes that it will be patched later. And otherwise, I'm
looking forward to getting it!

Thanks,
Kevin

(e-mail address removed) (Kevin Camera) wrote in message

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

 

[Kevin Camera]

Thanks for the reply, Jim. I will try using the feedback form and at
least see what happens. In any case, I surely will not be buying the
product.

Actually, I do use Outline view primarily (it is the view I primarily
use). But in my experience, it still does not allow for enough room
to properly wrap the text. At any readable zoom level, the pane must
be very, very large to not clip. Even so, the real problem is that
when you switch back to Normal view the zoom level remains the same,
and the text is completely lost.

I would absolutely call this a bug, because the scrollbar does not
work. It's perfectly fine if they chose to not wrap the text strictly
at the edge of the pane, but in that case the scrollbar should at
least cover the whole range of the view. I have done a fair amount of
programming (and so have my co-workers who helped verify this for me),
and it is definitely a bug in the code. Very poor product testing by
Microsoft for this to survive two major releases.

Thanks much for taking the time to help, Jim.

Kevin

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Hi Kevin,

I'm sure you realize this already, but in case anyone following this thread
does not, you can drag the frame dividers in PowerPoint normal and outline
views so that the window pane sizes can be adjusted to your own personal
preference.

What Kevin has discovered is that if you move the divider that separates the
outline on the left from the preview and notes panes on the right that you
will find a point at which the text in the outline does not flow the way you
might expect. For example, if you are in a web browser and the page is coded
in plain HTML you can resize the window and the text will re-flow to the
window size. There is some minimum window size for a given browser, and the
text should flow throughout all available window or frame no matter what
size the window is.

In PowerPoint you can make the window frame size smaller than the size that
PowerPoint makes the text flow nicely.

So Microsoft could adjust the frame divider so it won't adjust smaller than
the smallest size that flows right, or change the way text flows, or simply
leave things as they are since it's easy to adjust the frame divider.

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

 

[Kevin Camera]

I just wanted to add that I created my own web page for this bug. It
can be found at http://bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/People/kcamera/powerpoint_bug

As I started writing up more details on it, I realized that there are
really two parts: the minimum text wrapping width on the Mac is far
too wide (this is more of a usability issue, but I think it's pretty
important), but most importantly, the horizontal scrollbar does not
even work, and the right side of the outline text is completely
inaccessible.

Anyway, I'm hoping that page can get some exposure and help get the
bug fixed so I can get the new version...

Hi Kevin,

I'm sure you realize this already, but in case anyone following this thread
does not, you can drag the frame dividers in PowerPoint normal and outline
views so that the window pane sizes can be adjusted to your own personal
preference.

What Kevin has discovered is that if you move the divider that separates the
outline on the left from the preview and notes panes on the right that you
will find a point at which the text in the outline does not flow the way you
might expect. For example, if you are in a web browser and the page is coded
in plain HTML you can resize the window and the text will re-flow to the
window size. There is some minimum window size for a given browser, and the
text should flow throughout all available window or frame no matter what
size the window is.

In PowerPoint you can make the window frame size smaller than the size that
PowerPoint makes the text flow nicely.

So Microsoft could adjust the frame divider so it won't adjust smaller than
the smallest size that flows right, or change the way text flows, or simply
leave things as they are since it's easy to adjust the frame divider.

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

Thanks for the reply, Jim. I will try using the feedback form and at
least see what happens. In any case, I surely will not be buying the
product.

Actually, I do use Outline view primarily (it is the view I primarily
use). But in my experience, it still does not allow for enough room
to properly wrap the text. At any readable zoom level, the pane must
be very, very large to not clip. Even so, the real problem is that
when you switch back to Normal view the zoom level remains the same,
and the text is completely lost.

I would absolutely call this a bug, because the scrollbar does not
work. It's perfectly fine if they chose to not wrap the text strictly
at the edge of the pane, but in that case the scrollbar should at
least cover the whole range of the view. I have done a fair amount of
programming (and so have my co-workers who helped verify this for me),
and it is definitely a bug in the code. Very poor product testing by
Microsoft for this to survive two major releases.

Thanks much for taking the time to help, Jim.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I see what you mean about the wrapping. It just doesn't flow nicely in the
left pane once you make the width of the pane small enough.

It appears that the designer of the view figured that if you need a larger
view of the outline that you would simply choose Outline view.

You send send feedback directly to the Macintosh Business unit by using the
feedback option on the Help menu which uses this URL:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/feedback/suggestion.asp

You won't get a personal reply, but this is the kind of thing that they are
interested in knowing so they can put someone to work on it to fix it if
they think the problem ought to be fixed. Feedback sent to that URL is read
by the product manager and the programmers.

I'm not certain that they would consider this to be a bug since there is
Outline view, but it would be a good idea to let them know your thoughts
about the way you would like to see text wrap in Normal view.

-Jim



Quoting from "Kevin Camera" <[email protected]>, in article
(e-mail address removed), on [DATE:

Just another bump here, plus some extra info. I just verified this
same behavior on a couple other friends' Macs (there aren't a whole
lot around my office). So I have almost no doubt this is a bug in
PowerPoint. I guess I really do just use the program weirder than
most people...

If anyone has any thoughts on how I can communicate this directly to
Microsoft, I would also appreciate that. As I said in the first
message, I really won't purchase a defective (in my opinion) product
in the hopes that it will be patched later. And otherwise, I'm
looking forward to getting it!

Thanks,
Kevin

(e-mail address removed) (Kevin Camera) wrote in message
This is a continuation of a complaint I made a while ago, which can be
found here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=9e2b1fcd.0309180
81
3.3867b066%40posting.google.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Drender%2Bgroup:mi
cr
osoft.public.mac.office.powerpoint%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group%3
Dm
icrosoft.public.mac.office.powerpoint%26selm%3D9e2b1fcd.0309180813.3867b066
%2
540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D7

I just downloaded the Office 2004 Test Drive, and this bug IS STILL
HERE. I still want to believe that if this was a native bug in
PowerPoint, others would be commenting on this problem as well. But a
few months back, I bought a new iMac, and I have the exact same bug on
that machine. In fact, when I upgraded to Panther, I completely
reformatted my hard drives, and the bug still appeared on a fresh
install. I really don't think this is specific to my machine -- maybe
99.9% of the other users just don't use PowerPoint the way I do...

To summarize, in any view that uses the outline pane (either Normal or
Outline mode), the text is clipped in the horizontal direction.
Meaning, the text does not wrap properly at the right edge, and even
worse, the horizontal scrollbar does not work. Even when I scroll all
the way from left to right, the view only moves by a few pixels, and
the text is cut off.

This clip point is somehow determined by a hard-coded value
proportional to the zoom level. If I zoom in, the text clips farther
right than before, etc. So basically, the only way I can use the
program is to zoom out far enough that the text wraps properly.

I really want to buy Office 2004, but there is no way I will ever
spend the money unless this gets fixed. Please Microsoft, have
someone work to fix this bug even though I don't have any support
privileges with the test drive. I will not buy the product under the
wish that this gets fixed.

Thanks!

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

The best way to alert Microsoft about bugs is to use the feedback feature
from the Help menu.

Bugs sent in via that method are tracked. Other methods, such as web pages
and newsgroup postings, won't necessarily be seen by anyone from Microsoft.

-Jim

I just wanted to add that I created my own web page for this bug. It
can be found at http://bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/People/kcamera/powerpoint_bug

As I started writing up more details on it, I realized that there are
really two parts: the minimum text wrapping width on the Mac is far
too wide (this is more of a usability issue, but I think it's pretty
important), but most importantly, the horizontal scrollbar does not
even work, and the right side of the outline text is completely
inaccessible.

Anyway, I'm hoping that page can get some exposure and help get the
bug fixed so I can get the new version...

Hi Kevin,

I'm sure you realize this already, but in case anyone following this thread
does not, you can drag the frame dividers in PowerPoint normal and outline
views so that the window pane sizes can be adjusted to your own personal
preference.

What Kevin has discovered is that if you move the divider that separates the
outline on the left from the preview and notes panes on the right that you
will find a point at which the text in the outline does not flow the way you
might expect. For example, if you are in a web browser and the page is coded
in plain HTML you can resize the window and the text will re-flow to the
window size. There is some minimum window size for a given browser, and the
text should flow throughout all available window or frame no matter what
size the window is.

In PowerPoint you can make the window frame size smaller than the size that
PowerPoint makes the text flow nicely.

So Microsoft could adjust the frame divider so it won't adjust smaller than
the smallest size that flows right, or change the way text flows, or simply
leave things as they are since it's easy to adjust the frame divider.

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

Thanks for the reply, Jim. I will try using the feedback form and at
least see what happens. In any case, I surely will not be buying the
product.

Actually, I do use Outline view primarily (it is the view I primarily
use). But in my experience, it still does not allow for enough room
to properly wrap the text. At any readable zoom level, the pane must
be very, very large to not clip. Even so, the real problem is that
when you switch back to Normal view the zoom level remains the same,
and the text is completely lost.

I would absolutely call this a bug, because the scrollbar does not
work. It's perfectly fine if they chose to not wrap the text strictly
at the edge of the pane, but in that case the scrollbar should at
least cover the whole range of the view. I have done a fair amount of
programming (and so have my co-workers who helped verify this for me),
and it is definitely a bug in the code. Very poor product testing by
Microsoft for this to survive two major releases.

Thanks much for taking the time to help, Jim.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I see what you mean about the wrapping. It just doesn't flow nicely in the
left pane once you make the width of the pane small enough.

It appears that the designer of the view figured that if you need a larger
view of the outline that you would simply choose Outline view.

You send send feedback directly to the Macintosh Business unit by using the
feedback option on the Help menu which uses this URL:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/feedback/suggestion.asp

You won't get a personal reply, but this is the kind of thing that they are
interested in knowing so they can put someone to work on it to fix it if
they think the problem ought to be fixed. Feedback sent to that URL is read
by the product manager and the programmers.

I'm not certain that they would consider this to be a bug since there is
Outline view, but it would be a good idea to let them know your thoughts
about the way you would like to see text wrap in Normal view.

-Jim



Quoting from "Kevin Camera" <[email protected]>, in article
(e-mail address removed), on [DATE:

Just another bump here, plus some extra info. I just verified this
same behavior on a couple other friends' Macs (there aren't a whole
lot around my office). So I have almost no doubt this is a bug in
PowerPoint. I guess I really do just use the program weirder than
most people...

If anyone has any thoughts on how I can communicate this directly to
Microsoft, I would also appreciate that. As I said in the first
message, I really won't purchase a defective (in my opinion) product
in the hopes that it will be patched later. And otherwise, I'm
looking forward to getting it!

Thanks,
Kevin

(e-mail address removed) (Kevin Camera) wrote in message
This is a continuation of a complaint I made a while ago, which can be
found here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=9e2b1fcd.03091
80
81
3.3867b066%40posting.google.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Drender%2Bgroup:
mi
cr
osoft.public.mac.office.powerpoint%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group
%3
Dm
icrosoft.public.mac.office.powerpoint%26selm%3D9e2b1fcd.0309180813.3867b0
66
%2
540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D7

I just downloaded the Office 2004 Test Drive, and this bug IS STILL
HERE. I still want to believe that if this was a native bug in
PowerPoint, others would be commenting on this problem as well. But a
few months back, I bought a new iMac, and I have the exact same bug on
that machine. In fact, when I upgraded to Panther, I completely
reformatted my hard drives, and the bug still appeared on a fresh
install. I really don't think this is specific to my machine -- maybe
99.9% of the other users just don't use PowerPoint the way I do...

To summarize, in any view that uses the outline pane (either Normal or
Outline mode), the text is clipped in the horizontal direction.
Meaning, the text does not wrap properly at the right edge, and even
worse, the horizontal scrollbar does not work. Even when I scroll all
the way from left to right, the view only moves by a few pixels, and
the text is cut off.

This clip point is somehow determined by a hard-coded value
proportional to the zoom level. If I zoom in, the text clips farther
right than before, etc. So basically, the only way I can use the
program is to zoom out far enough that the text wraps properly.

I really want to buy Office 2004, but there is no way I will ever
spend the money unless this gets fixed. Please Microsoft, have
someone work to fix this bug even though I don't have any support
privileges with the test drive. I will not buy the product under the
wish that this gets fixed.

Thanks!

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

 

[Kevin Camera]

I actually have filled out the feedback form once or twice for
PowerPoint v.X, mentioning the same bug. Clearly no one payed too
much attention to it, since the bug survived a major release cycle.
But I know that is the correct way to report things.

I also realize that Microsoft employees don't necessarily check these
newsgroups at all, but at least this way it's documented in a
semi-official forum, since the newsgroups are the only free "support"
they advertise. It may not help me any to post here, but at least
their product teams have the opportunity to come and look at how much
user satisfaction is being lost, if they choose to.

The web page is only meant to help me and the members of some other
mailing lists I'm on spread awareness. If enough people fill out the
feedback form (I might put a link off that page), maybe they'll
finally fix their product. Like I said, I already submitted feedback,
and spreading the word is about all I can do at this point.

Thanks for your time...

The best way to alert Microsoft about bugs is to use the feedback feature
from the Help menu.

Bugs sent in via that method are tracked. Other methods, such as web pages
and newsgroup postings, won't necessarily be seen by anyone from Microsoft.

-Jim

I just wanted to add that I created my own web page for this bug. It
can be found at http://bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/People/kcamera/powerpoint_bug

As I started writing up more details on it, I realized that there are
really two parts: the minimum text wrapping width on the Mac is far
too wide (this is more of a usability issue, but I think it's pretty
important), but most importantly, the horizontal scrollbar does not
even work, and the right side of the outline text is completely
inaccessible.

Anyway, I'm hoping that page can get some exposure and help get the
bug fixed so I can get the new version...

Hi Kevin,

I'm sure you realize this already, but in case anyone following this thread
does not, you can drag the frame dividers in PowerPoint normal and outline
views so that the window pane sizes can be adjusted to your own personal
preference.

What Kevin has discovered is that if you move the divider that separates the
outline on the left from the preview and notes panes on the right that you
will find a point at which the text in the outline does not flow the way you
might expect. For example, if you are in a web browser and the page is coded
in plain HTML you can resize the window and the text will re-flow to the
window size. There is some minimum window size for a given browser, and the
text should flow throughout all available window or frame no matter what
size the window is.

In PowerPoint you can make the window frame size smaller than the size that
PowerPoint makes the text flow nicely.

So Microsoft could adjust the frame divider so it won't adjust smaller than
the smallest size that flows right, or change the way text flows, or simply
leave things as they are since it's easy to adjust the frame divider.

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

Quoting from "Kevin Camera" <[email protected]>, in article
(e-mail address removed), on [DATE:

Thanks for the reply, Jim. I will try using the feedback form and at
least see what happens. In any case, I surely will not be buying the
product.

Actually, I do use Outline view primarily (it is the view I primarily
use). But in my experience, it still does not allow for enough room
to properly wrap the text. At any readable zoom level, the pane must
be very, very large to not clip. Even so, the real problem is that
when you switch back to Normal view the zoom level remains the same,
and the text is completely lost.

I would absolutely call this a bug, because the scrollbar does not
work. It's perfectly fine if they chose to not wrap the text strictly
at the edge of the pane, but in that case the scrollbar should at
least cover the whole range of the view. I have done a fair amount of
programming (and so have my co-workers who helped verify this for me),
and it is definitely a bug in the code. Very poor product testing by
Microsoft for this to survive two major releases.

Thanks much for taking the time to help, Jim.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I see what you mean about the wrapping. It just doesn't flow nicely in the
left pane once you make the width of the pane small enough.

It appears that the designer of the view figured that if you need a larger
view of the outline that you would simply choose Outline view.

You send send feedback directly to the Macintosh Business unit by using the
feedback option on the Help menu which uses this URL:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/feedback/suggestion.asp

You won't get a personal reply, but this is the kind of thing that they are
interested in knowing so they can put someone to work on it to fix it if
they think the problem ought to be fixed. Feedback sent to that URL is read
by the product manager and the programmers.

I'm not certain that they would consider this to be a bug since there is
Outline view, but it would be a good idea to let them know your thoughts
about the way you would like to see text wrap in Normal view.

-Jim



Quoting from "Kevin Camera" <[email protected]>, in article
(e-mail address removed), on [DATE:

Just another bump here, plus some extra info. I just verified this
same behavior on a couple other friends' Macs (there aren't a whole
lot around my office). So I have almost no doubt this is a bug in
PowerPoint. I guess I really do just use the program weirder than
most people...

If anyone has any thoughts on how I can communicate this directly to
Microsoft, I would also appreciate that. As I said in the first
message, I really won't purchase a defective (in my opinion) product
in the hopes that it will be patched later. And otherwise, I'm
looking forward to getting it!

Thanks,
Kevin

(e-mail address removed) (Kevin Camera) wrote in message
This is a continuation of a complaint I made a while ago, which can be
found here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=9e2b1fcd.03091
80
81
3.3867b066%40posting.google.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Drender%2Bgroup:
mi
cr
osoft.public.mac.office.powerpoint%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group
%3
Dm
icrosoft.public.mac.office.powerpoint%26selm%3D9e2b1fcd.0309180813.3867b0
66
%2
540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D7

I just downloaded the Office 2004 Test Drive, and this bug IS STILL
HERE. I still want to believe that if this was a native bug in
PowerPoint, others would be commenting on this problem as well. But a
few months back, I bought a new iMac, and I have the exact same bug on
that machine. In fact, when I upgraded to Panther, I completely
reformatted my hard drives, and the bug still appeared on a fresh
install. I really don't think this is specific to my machine -- maybe
99.9% of the other users just don't use PowerPoint the way I do...

To summarize, in any view that uses the outline pane (either Normal or
Outline mode), the text is clipped in the horizontal direction.
Meaning, the text does not wrap properly at the right edge, and even
worse, the horizontal scrollbar does not work. Even when I scroll all
the way from left to right, the view only moves by a few pixels, and
the text is cut off.

This clip point is somehow determined by a hard-coded value
proportional to the zoom level. If I zoom in, the text clips farther
right than before, etc. So basically, the only way I can use the
program is to zoom out far enough that the text wraps properly.

I really want to buy Office 2004, but there is no way I will ever
spend the money unless this gets fixed. Please Microsoft, have
someone work to fix this bug even though I don't have any support
privileges with the test drive. I will not buy the product under the
wish that this gets fixed.

Thanks!

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Hi Kevin,

Please continue to post about this and any other topics in which you are
interested in the newsgroups. Fleshing out what is important is one of the
main reasons why Microsoft provides them. Don't be discouraged if it takes
time (a lot of it on occassion) between when a problem is noticed and its
eventual cure.

You can be sure that someone paid close attention to the feedback sent in
via the web form. But it is possible that the manager decided this is not a
bug they can afford to fix at the moment. I don't think bugs ever leave the
system until they are squashed. There are probably thousands of little bugs
that they would like to fix but never will have time for.

On the other hand, in the next beta cycle this is something that I will
probably pay attention to and point out if it hasn't been already fixed by
then, thanks to your newsgroup postings. It's something I never noticed
before.

Crashes and data loss problems get priority for fixing. Fortunately this
problem doesn't fall into either of those categories.

You've certainly heightened the awareness of this MVP to the problem.

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

I actually have filled out the feedback form once or twice for
PowerPoint v.X, mentioning the same bug. Clearly no one payed too
much attention to it, since the bug survived a major release cycle.
But I know that is the correct way to report things.

I also realize that Microsoft employees don't necessarily check these
newsgroups at all, but at least this way it's documented in a
semi-official forum, since the newsgroups are the only free "support"
they advertise. It may not help me any to post here, but at least
their product teams have the opportunity to come and look at how much
user satisfaction is being lost, if they choose to.

The web page is only meant to help me and the members of some other
mailing lists I'm on spread awareness. If enough people fill out the
feedback form (I might put a link off that page), maybe they'll
finally fix their product. Like I said, I already submitted feedback,
and spreading the word is about all I can do at this point.

Thanks for your time...

The best way to alert Microsoft about bugs is to use the feedback feature
from the Help menu.

Bugs sent in via that method are tracked. Other methods, such as web pages
and newsgroup postings, won't necessarily be seen by anyone from Microsoft.

-Jim

I just wanted to add that I created my own web page for this bug. It
can be found at http://bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/People/kcamera/powerpoint_bug

As I started writing up more details on it, I realized that there are
really two parts: the minimum text wrapping width on the Mac is far
too wide (this is more of a usability issue, but I think it's pretty
important), but most importantly, the horizontal scrollbar does not
even work, and the right side of the outline text is completely
inaccessible.

Anyway, I'm hoping that page can get some exposure and help get the
bug fixed so I can get the new version...

Hi Kevin,

I'm sure you realize this already, but in case anyone following this thread
does not, you can drag the frame dividers in PowerPoint normal and outline
views so that the window pane sizes can be adjusted to your own personal
preference.

What Kevin has discovered is that if you move the divider that separates
the
outline on the left from the preview and notes panes on the right that you
will find a point at which the text in the outline does not flow the way
you
might expect. For example, if you are in a web browser and the page is
coded
in plain HTML you can resize the window and the text will re-flow to the
window size. There is some minimum window size for a given browser, and the
text should flow throughout all available window or frame no matter what
size the window is.

In PowerPoint you can make the window frame size smaller than the size that
PowerPoint makes the text flow nicely.

So Microsoft could adjust the frame divider so it won't adjust smaller than
the smallest size that flows right, or change the way text flows, or simply
leave things as they are since it's easy to adjust the frame divider.

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

Quoting from "Kevin Camera" <[email protected]>, in article
(e-mail address removed), on [DATE:

Thanks for the reply, Jim. I will try using the feedback form and at
least see what happens. In any case, I surely will not be buying the
product.

Actually, I do use Outline view primarily (it is the view I primarily
use). But in my experience, it still does not allow for enough room
to properly wrap the text. At any readable zoom level, the pane must
be very, very large to not clip. Even so, the real problem is that
when you switch back to Normal view the zoom level remains the same,
and the text is completely lost.

I would absolutely call this a bug, because the scrollbar does not
work. It's perfectly fine if they chose to not wrap the text strictly
at the edge of the pane, but in that case the scrollbar should at
least cover the whole range of the view. I have done a fair amount of
programming (and so have my co-workers who helped verify this for me),
and it is definitely a bug in the code. Very poor product testing by
Microsoft for this to survive two major releases.

Thanks much for taking the time to help, Jim.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I see what you mean about the wrapping. It just doesn't flow nicely in
the
left pane once you make the width of the pane small enough.

It appears that the designer of the view figured that if you need a
larger
view of the outline that you would simply choose Outline view.

You send send feedback directly to the Macintosh Business unit by using
the
feedback option on the Help menu which uses this URL:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/feedback/suggestion.asp

You won't get a personal reply, but this is the kind of thing that they
are
interested in knowing so they can put someone to work on it to fix it if
they think the problem ought to be fixed. Feedback sent to that URL is
read
by the product manager and the programmers.

I'm not certain that they would consider this to be a bug since there is
Outline view, but it would be a good idea to let them know your thoughts
about the way you would like to see text wrap in Normal view.

-Jim



Quoting from "Kevin Camera" <[email protected]>, in article
(e-mail address removed), on [DATE:

Just another bump here, plus some extra info. I just verified this
same behavior on a couple other friends' Macs (there aren't a whole
lot around my office). So I have almost no doubt this is a bug in
PowerPoint. I guess I really do just use the program weirder than
most people...

If anyone has any thoughts on how I can communicate this directly to
Microsoft, I would also appreciate that. As I said in the first
message, I really won't purchase a defective (in my opinion) product
in the hopes that it will be patched later. And otherwise, I'm
looking forward to getting it!

Thanks,
Kevin

(e-mail address removed) (Kevin Camera) wrote in message
This is a continuation of a complaint I made a while ago, which can be
found here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=9e2b1fcd.030
91
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icrosoft.public.mac.office.powerpoint%26selm%3D9e2b1fcd.0309180813.3867
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I just downloaded the Office 2004 Test Drive, and this bug IS STILL
HERE. I still want to believe that if this was a native bug in
PowerPoint, others would be commenting on this problem as well. But a
few months back, I bought a new iMac, and I have the exact same bug on
that machine. In fact, when I upgraded to Panther, I completely
reformatted my hard drives, and the bug still appeared on a fresh
install. I really don't think this is specific to my machine -- maybe
99.9% of the other users just don't use PowerPoint the way I do...

To summarize, in any view that uses the outline pane (either Normal or
Outline mode), the text is clipped in the horizontal direction.
Meaning, the text does not wrap properly at the right edge, and even
worse, the horizontal scrollbar does not work. Even when I scroll all
the way from left to right, the view only moves by a few pixels, and
the text is cut off.

This clip point is somehow determined by a hard-coded value
proportional to the zoom level. If I zoom in, the text clips farther
right than before, etc. So basically, the only way I can use the
program is to zoom out far enough that the text wraps properly.

I really want to buy Office 2004, but there is no way I will ever
spend the money unless this gets fixed. Please Microsoft, have
someone work to fix this bug even though I don't have any support
privileges with the test drive. I will not buy the product under the
wish that this gets fixed.

Thanks!