VB .net - A question for Microsoft Moderators...

[Jim Vierra]

OK - I wasn't sure if the forum was that broadly based. I was assuming
coding issues with current products but I suppose you r right.

 

[Soli3d]

Despite all the above, people like me aren't given Visual Studio we have to

survive with IDE of MS office Apps. So my initial gripe was that even if I
wanted to learn VB.net I can't because it isn't made available to me

http://www.editpadpro.com/editcsharp.html#tools

Will get you started, download of .net Framework
is free. You can even use just a basic text editor
but the link has support for C# and other languages.

Also, Microsoft offers Express versions of all Net
Languages for free. Nice learning tool.

http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/

gl
Paul

Agree with most of what everyone has said but it doesn't address the problem
that not all VB6/VBA programmers have the luxury of Visual studio proper.
Some System Accountants like myself have huge amounts of legacy database and
spreadsheet applications to maintain using any combination ADO, DAO, SQL and
VBA written by successive people who have been in the role. Sometimes some
accounting applications are very lacking in reports and are managed using MS
Access.

Despite all the above, people like me aren't given Visual Studio we have to
survive with IDE of MS office Apps. So my initial gripe was that even if I
wanted to learn VB.net I can't because it isn't made available to me. My
other gripe is a lot of people seem to think that all programmers are members
of the IT department. Not true either. This is obviously why Microsoft
peddles .Net office programming as a Visual Studio Add-on - but it's plain
ignorant to think MS office programmers are all strict IT people.

I want to learn .Net and I don't care if VBA is around for 5 or 10 years. I
still have 20 years before my retirement so I have to keep up to date for the
time being. Microsoft is abandonning those VBA programmers who only have the
office IDE as their staple programming tools and insulting them as if they
were lower class citizens to my way of thinking.

I'd be happy to fork out for .Net privately but I'm not the person I need to
convince - it's the employers who dictate what tools are given to their
programmers in the work environment.

That's enough of a screed from me for now

 

[Jim Vierra]

I currently use Visual Web Develoer Express fo all kinds of things
HTML/ASP/VB and client code. It works well for scripting since some of the
intellisence works. It's a handy tool for free.

I have VS6 but it's not on my work machine and haven't gotten togeter the
extra bucks for VS.NET but di 2 loads 2003 beta and the preview of 2005. I
try to keep up even when I don't have the time or money.

I find doing things in a text editor - notepad - is good discipline for
learning the new api and structure. At least for the web stuff.

I recommend getting into the new technology soon so you have time to learn
it's behaviours without being under pressure.

 

[Cindy M -WordMVP-]

Hi =?Utf-8?B?QW5kcmV3IFRoZSBNYXJnaW5hbGlzZWQgQWNjb3VudGFudA==?=,

not all VB6/VBA programmers have the luxury of Visual studio proper.

Currently, you can d/l - for free- the VS 2005 beta from the MSDN
website. As well as the VS Express beta (this is something new, for
"hobbyists" and VBA-types). You might want to do that if you want to
familiarize yourself with the environment.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 8 2004)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question
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[Karl E. Peterson]

the VS Express beta (this is something new, for "hobbyists"
and VBA-types).

I'm curious about the latter characterization. Sure, on the hobby front, but what's
VS Express have to offer VBA users? Thanks...

 

[Jim Vierra]

Office Automation through VB.NET using Visual Basic Express 2005.
Try it - you'll like it It's quite light weight and will get you into
dotNET for free.

I have hooked it up to Office 11 and been able to do lot's of interesting
things quite easily.

It puts a wrapper around VB/VBA code and has much better intellisense than
VB6/VBA or VB.NET 2003.

It's a lightweight tool, a learning tool and good way to build add-ins. It
won't do corporate databases easily and it doen't have all of hte team and
code sharing feature of VB.NET 2005 Pro/Ent.

It loads side-by-side NET 2.0 and NET 1.x

 

[Karl E. Peterson]

Office Automation through VB.NET using Visual Basic Express 2005.
Try it - you'll like it It's quite light weight and will get you into
dotNET for free.

Well, as I said, that doesn't seem to offer *VBA* users much at all? <shrug>

 

[Jim Vierra]

Karl never smile ;(

--
Jim Vierra

Well, as I said, that doesn't seem to offer *VBA* users much at all? <shrug>

 

[Jonathan West]

Karl never smile ;(


It was a reasonable enough point, though Karl is sometimes overly terse in
the way he expresses himself

With VBA you get faster execution when accessing the obects of the
application, you get intellisense integrating the object model into the IDE
and you even get a degree of primitive "code by example" in the form of the
macro recorder for some of the apps.

With VB5/6 you get the use of the same core language making it relatively
easy to move code from VBA what you want in a separate compiled executable.
You get a more complex forms engine available to you. The VB5 and VB6
runtimes are also shipped as part of most recent versions of Office,
simplifying the distribution of such apps.

So, what is the compensating advantage to Office developers of using Visual
Basic Express 2005 instead? It's clear that you think there is one, and I'm
prepared to be persuaded if you have a good case for using it.

 

[Karl E. Peterson]

Karl never smile ;(

It was a reasonable enough point, though Karl is sometimes overly
terse in the way he expresses himself

Hey, I didn't respond, "Bite me!" :-D

 

[Rufus]

Now that's a new concept "forward-compatible" Is that like write-once and
forget-it coding.

 

[when will V.S.2005 come out?]

Now that's a new concept "forward-compatible" Is that like write-once and
forget-it coding.

 

[Cindy M -WordMVP-]

Hi Karl,

I'm curious about the latter characterization. Sure, on the hobby front, but what's
VS Express have to offer VBA users?

The OP was looking for something to easily get into .NET. That was my only and entire
point. His question was NOT about the merits of one environment/language over another,
so your question is irrelevant in this context. Personally, I've never (yet) looked at
Express (one can do only so much in 24/7); I've concentrated my efforts on gettign
acquainted with VB.NEt and C#.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 8 2004)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply in the
newsgroup and not by e-mail

 

[Jim Vierra]

Hey - I was only adding options to the list in defense of ADDING new
languages to the mix. I was not trashing VBA. I am a big defender of VBA.
I believe that if you can do it in VBA from the app without too much pain,
then that is probably the better way to go.

In this game there is no one best solution. The more approaches available
the more problems get solved.

VB and C# Express are a good way for building add-ins for those that don't
have Visual Studio. It is also a good way to begin to learn NET programming
for those that are interested.

I don't think VBA is going away any time soon so everybody stop fretting!

Karl - consider yourself bitten.

 

[Jim Vierra]

See article at
http://www.ftponline.com/vsm/2005_01/magazine/departments/guestop/

The arguments about language (VB flavors) is addressed well by Tim Patrick.

 

[Jim Vierra]

Remember that after Basic escaped from the labs a Dartmouth Bill Gates and
company created a version for the builders of little home-brew
micro-computers helping to create all of this here. These early "hackers"
were called "hobbyists".

The first copies of "Visual" tools were not taken seriously including
"Visual C".

I remember when those around me considered real programming to be what
people did with the "switch register".

 

[Karl E. Peterson]

I don't think VBA is going away any time soon so everybody stop
fretting!

I don't either; and, I'm not.

 

[Karl E. Peterson]

Hi Cindy --

The OP was looking for something to easily get into .NET. That was my
only and entire point. His question was NOT about the merits of one
environment/language over another, so your question is irrelevant in
this context.

Ah, I see. I was just responding to the context in which you presented the
suggestion, not that in which it was originally posted.

Personally, I've never (yet) looked at Express (one can
do only so much in 24/7); I've concentrated my efforts on gettign
acquainted with VB.NEt and C#.

Put your assets (code) where Microsoft does. That's the lesson to take to the bank,
here.

Later... Karl

 

[Jim Vierra]

Karl - go ahead and confuse me - it's easy.

I miss Basic. It was less frustrating than trying to C# the shell. VBA is
nice but it takes too much code to do anything non-trivial,

When we get NET - well we'll see.

 

[Howard Kaikow]

Office 2003 still uses VBA, not VB .NET.