Benefits of Publisher 2007 for commercial CMYK printing?

[Mr. Analogy]

I'm thinking about upgrading to Publisher 2007. Only real benefit I can see
is that maybe it does a better job with outputting a PDF or PS file for a
commercial printer.

We currently use Nitro PDF to print from Publisher to a PDF. Nitro supports
PS version 3 which lets Publisher print CMYK seperations.

So far, the only improvements I see in 07 for Commercial Printing is:
- Improved Design Checker (it'll auto fix problems. No thanks, I'll do that
myself)
-PDF output.

So my questions:

How *good* is the PDF printing in Publisher 2007? And how would I quantify
that?
It's very easy for MS to say "it prints to a PDF" but there is a huge range
of how PDF printing

Also... is there anything else that's better about Commercial Printing in
Publisher 2007 (vs. 2003, which we have now)?
-E.g., could we keep our graphics in RGB JPGs instead of needing to have
them in CMYK TIFF files?

Thanks!

 

[Matt Beals]

See inline responses.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

I'm thinking about upgrading to Publisher 2007. Only real benefit I can see
is that maybe it does a better job with outputting a PDF or PS file for a
commercial printer.

The Office Save as PDF / XPS Plug-in works well. You're almost always
better off going right to PDF than through PostScript to PDF. Think
"Hi-fi" versus "lo-fi". Ideally one would use the Adobe PDF plug-in in
Acrobat Professional.

We currently use Nitro PDF to print from Publisher to a PDF. Nitro supports
PS version 3 which lets Publisher print CMYK seperations.

Nitro works well. It's not terribly flexible for what you are trying to
do. But that really is more of a function of Publisher than Nitro.
Having said that Nitro is capable, just not "complete".

So far, the only improvements I see in 07 for Commercial Printing is:
- Improved Design Checker (it'll auto fix problems. No thanks, I'll do that
myself)

Always a wise idea.

-PDF output.

PDF output from Publisher works quite well. I do it a lot for people
sending jobs off to be printed.

So my questions:

How *good* is the PDF printing in Publisher 2007? And how would I quantify
that?

How do you quantify the quality of the PDF? Remember where it's coming
from; Publisher. Does that mean it is not as good as Nitro PDF? No, not
necessarily. There are a huge number of factors that really come down to
Publisher itself and how *it* works when printing. Publisher relies on
Windows itself for many things. So many of the problems you may or may
not run into come from how Windows does things.

It's very easy for MS to say "it prints to a PDF" but there is a huge range
of how PDF printing

Just about anyone can create a PDF. Not all PDF's are created equally.
PDF for print/publishing has many idiosyncrasies that most of the time
do not get taken into account with PDF engines.

Also... is there anything else that's better about Commercial Printing in
Publisher 2007 (vs. 2003, which we have now)?
-E.g., could we keep our graphics in RGB JPGs instead of needing to have
them in CMYK TIFF files?

Funny you should mention that... Last I checked Publisher when printing
converts everything to RGB. Even those CMYK TIFF's. And then you end up
a reseparated image which has been known to be disastrous.

 

[Mr. Analogy]

Do you think the P2007 "print to PDF" does any better job than Nitro PDF?
You indicated it's not flexible. Are there any options/flexibility in P2007
that Nitro doesn't have?

I'm curious as to how you discovered that Publisher converts CMYK TIFFs to
RGB internally (since it's happening internally). (I'm wondering how anyone
would be able to figure that out. And I'm guessing MS wouldn't *tell us*
about such goofiness <g>

Thanks!

-Clay



:

 

[Matt Beals]

If you look at the separations closely enough knowing what you put in
and what comes out

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

 

[Matt Beals]

I've been in printing for 20 years and made contacts with a lot of
people in the industry who work for MSFT, as we call it in Seattle, or
people who work a lot with Publisher files like I do.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

 

[Matt Beals]

See inline responses please.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

(well, friends don't let friends use Publisher for anything beyond
what's being printed to a local inkjet...)

I'm no "fan" of Publisher but I will say this: Good design is good
design. Bad design is bad design. Doesn't matter what tool you use. Now
if you want something easy to use, low cost (FREE) and produces high
quality PDF's then you should use Scribus.

ALERT ALERT ALERT

pay CLOSE attention to what the man says here. CLOSE attention.
Re-read it as many times as you need in order to understand ALL of what
he says AND its ramifications.

Windows "printing" for commercial print isn't "broken", but it's not
exactly "high end". For that matter neither is Mac OS X. The difference
between Publisher and Adobe InDesign (on Windows) is that Adobe InDesign
has its own driver/library for making PostScript/PDF that basically
bypasses the Windows GDI (the display/graphics/printing engine of
Windows). So by doing its own thing Adobe, therefore InDesign, can do
things "correctly". I put correctly in quotation marks because "correct"
is a very subjective term in printing/publishing. To surmise though,
"high-end" applications make the PostScript or PDF itself and don't rely
on Windows GDI.

 

[Matt Beals]

Not necessarily. There are some important exceptions to that
generalization. Similar things can happen in "professional" applications
if you aren't careful.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

 

[Matt Beals]

True, Publisher itself does not have the built-in toolbox to make it
happen. But tools are available to everyone to make it happen relatively
simply. Mac OS X has its own inherent issues. One of them being
everything is in Calibrated, RGB unlike Windows which uses sRGB, when
relying on certain functions in Quartz. Like making a PDF from Pages,
Mail, Keynote, etc. It's basically the same set of problems on a
different platform.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

I'm no "fan" of Publisher but I will say this: Good design is good
design. Bad design is bad design. Doesn't matter what tool you use.

I'm not talking about the design.

Design on the screen is useless to a print house. It must be put onto a
substrate somehow. Publisher does not have a suitable toolbox to make
that happen correctly and/or with nearly enough flexibility. Make a
good design in Publisher, then get stuck trying to make it print.
That's a fact.


In fact, you admit that when you say that:

Windows "printing" for commercial print isn't "broken", but it's not
exactly "high end".

For that matter neither is Mac OS X.

????? Not sure where that one came from.

The difference
between Publisher and Adobe InDesign (on Windows) is that Adobe InDesign
has its own driver/library for making PostScript/PDF that basically
bypasses the Windows GDI (the display/graphics/printing engine of
Windows). So by doing its own thing Adobe, therefore InDesign, can do
things "correctly".

Yes.

And Publisher can't, because it's tied to a system that can't.

I put correctly in quotation marks because "correct"
is a very subjective term in printing/publishing.

"Correctly" will change for each situation, but there are a broad set of
conditions that hold for just about every print job regardless. Then
there are the unique items for each print job.

Publisher handles about, oh, zero of those conditions.[/QUOTE]