'Document Not Saved' error

[RondaM_AIM]

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: Intel

There were a couple of previous discussions of this error but neither seemed to offer a resolution and both are now closed so I thought I'd start a new thread.

I and a couple of my colleagues have each encountered this issue individually (with different files). Usually these are existing files we work in on a regular basis and can have large amounts of data in them. In one session the file will open and save fine for a period of time, but then at some point when attempting to save the 'Document not saved' notice will appear. Once this notice is received it is no longer possible to save the file since 'Save as' and changing the file name or location will not work either. I have found a couple of workarounds, but am wondering if anyone knows of an actual solution.

It should be noted that while we are all three now using Leopard and 2008, I had previously encountered this problem in Tiger/OfficeX.

The workarounds, for anyone else encountering the problem.
1) Move the spreadsheets to a new file and save the new file. (This will not always work with large amounts of data, as all of the data will not carry over.)

2) Send the file as an email attachment using the 'File->Send to' option to yourself then save the emailed file.

 

[Peter_M]

I just had the same problem today with a file with a lot of tabs and about 900kb size. When I deleted some sheets it saved ok at about 150kb. Surely there must be a fix for this somewhere.

 

[John McGhie]

Without knowing what version of Excel and operating system you are talking
about, I have no idea.

I can save 10 mb Excel files without a problem.

I just had the same problem today with a file with a lot of tabs and about
900kb size. When I deleted some sheets it saved ok at about 150kb. Surely
there must be a fix for this somewhere.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Peter_M]

I use Excel:Mac 2008 , v 12.2.1, Snow Leopard, MacBookPro.

 

[Peter_M]

Just tried the workaround of copying all sheets to a new workbook and saving. Worked OK for the moment but still would like to know the problem. The only thing I can add is that the original workbook was MSExcel2002 and it used to sometime give the 'no more fonts may be added to the book' error. Might this have carried over even when saving as a xlsx file?

 

[John McGhie]

Yes, it might. That error is rather strange, since fonts "can't" be added
to a Workbook on the Mac.

So it indicates that the workbook was corrupted somehow. And if it is
corrupted, it indeed "won't" save

What size is the file now? If it was corrupted, you can expect a dramatic
size reduction.

Cheers

Just tried the workaround of copying all sheets to a new workbook and saving.
Worked OK for the moment but still would like to know the problem. The only
thing I can add is that the original workbook was MSExcel2002 and it used to
sometime give the 'no more fonts may be added to the book' error. Might this
have carried over even when saving as a xlsx file?

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[apost99]

I use Mac OS X (10.4.11) and experienced this problem in 2006. At the
time, I thought I had solved it by deleting all Office preferences in
my user Library. The problem has again resurfaced and I've tolerated
it by using my workaround: before even launching Excel, 1) I create a
copy of the file (control click > "Duplicate"), 2) rename the file as
desired, 3) open the file, and 4) use regular Save to save changes.

After some investigation, I have discovered the following:

The Save As > "Document not saved" error seems to occur only for files
that (1) contain a VBA component AND I'm trying to save to a folder
that contains any previously problematic file AND the file name is
more than 29 characters long (not including .xls portion). If I
shorten the file name to 29 characters (or fewer) I can "Save As" into
any folder without getting the error.

Why would folder destination be a factor? Why would file name length
be a factor?
Can a single file within the destination folder corrupt the entire
folder if only certain conditions are met?

Very strange.

 

[apost99]

Oh, forgot to say I'm using Excel 2004 for Mac (version 11.4.1 build
980219)

 

[CyberTaz]

If this is accurate one likely possibility is that you're *way* behind in
your Office updates. Office 2004 should be at 11.5.5, so that's the first
thing to address. Run Check for Updates from the Help menu of either Office
app then run Disk Utility ‹ Repair Disk Permissions & restart the Mac.

It's pointless to chase after anything else until the software is updated.

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[apost99]

If this is accurate one likely possibility is that you're *way* behind in
your Office updates. Office 2004 should be at 11.5.5, so that's the first
thing to address. Run Check for Updates from the Help menu of either Office
app then run Disk Utility ‹ Repair Disk Permissions & restart theMac.

It's pointless to chase after anything else until the software is updated..

OK. I've updated to 11.5.5, repaired disk permissions and restarted.
The "Document not saved" error persists.

Also, I no longer think a VBA component is a required condition for
produce the error. As far as I can tell, the conditions are:

1) saving to a folder that contains any previously problematic file
AND
2) using a file name more than 29 characters long (not including .xls
portion)

Both conditions must be true for the error to occur. Eliminating
either of these two conditions results in no error.

Oddly, I notice a new quirk in Excel with v 11.5.5: upon opening any
existing Excel file, it is immediately in "unsaved" state (i.e., the
"close document" bubble in the document title bar has a dot in it,
indicating that a change to the document has been made--even though I
haven't yet made any changes). Excel also now makes a chime sound when
I open a file, similar to the sound when saving a file. I'm not sure
if sounds might have been a preference that I deleted.

 

[John McGhie]

I suspect it's not the "Previously problematic file" that's doing the
damage.

The 29-character limit indicates that you are running "old" code that should
not be there: there was a patch that fixed this in Office 2004. The old
limit was the old Mac OS 9 file-name limit. That code should have been
removed by a service pack, which is why Bob suggested that you should
update.

A newly-opened Excel file "should" re-calculate on open, so it should be in
an unsaved state. And the service pack should have restored the Microsoft
Office Sound Set, which you may indeed have disabled.

But I am more interested in the pathname of that file, where "pathname"
includes all of the characters down to, and including the extension. I am
just wondering whether there are any special characters anywhere in that
path name?

Cheers

OK. I've updated to 11.5.5, repaired disk permissions and restarted.
The "Document not saved" error persists.

Also, I no longer think a VBA component is a required condition for
produce the error. As far as I can tell, the conditions are:

1) saving to a folder that contains any previously problematic file
AND
2) using a file name more than 29 characters long (not including .xls
portion)

Both conditions must be true for the error to occur. Eliminating
either of these two conditions results in no error.

Oddly, I notice a new quirk in Excel with v 11.5.5: upon opening any
existing Excel file, it is immediately in "unsaved" state (i.e., the
"close document" bubble in the document title bar has a dot in it,
indicating that a change to the document has been made--even though I
haven't yet made any changes). Excel also now makes a chime sound when
I open a file, similar to the sound when saving a file. I'm not sure
if sounds might have been a preference that I deleted.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[XinXin]

I'd be happy to investigate this issue, if someone can send me a copy of the workbook and show me how to reproduce this "document not saved" error. My email is (e-mail address removed). Thanks!

Thanks,
XinXin
Macintosh Business Unit, Microsoft

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[John McGhie]

Thanks XinXin:

If you find it, please tell us what it was

Cheers

I'd be happy to investigate this issue, if someone can send me a copy of the
workbook and show me how to reproduce this "document not saved" error. My
email is (e-mail address removed). Thanks!

Thanks,
XinXin
Macintosh Business Unit, Microsoft

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[apost99]

I suspect it's not the "Previously problematic file" that's doing the
damage. [...]
But I am [...] interested in the pathname of that file, where "pathname"
includes all of the characters down to, and including the extension. I am
just wondering whether there are any special characters anywhere in that
path name?

I made another test. I created a version of the file with a 30+
character name. I then used Save As to save the file multiple times,
starting from the parent directory and moving down to the bottom
directory, to see when the error occurs. I successfully saved the
problem file in EVERY folder (directory) until I reached final folder
-- the one containing the "problematic files".

There are no special characters in the file names or paths, unless an
underscore counts as a special character. I removed the underscore,
but saw no difference in my results.

The 29-character limit indicates that you are running "old" code that should
not be there: there was a patch that fixed this in Office 2004.  The old
limit was the old Mac OS 9 file-name limit.  That code should have been
removed by a service pack, which is why Bob suggested that you should
update.

So now that I am running "new" code, why is this character limit a
factor? Note that I can save 30+ character names in any folder EXCEPT
the folder containing "problematic files."

Any other thoughts?

 

[John McGhie]

No other thoughts: there's something inexplicable going on. XinXin has
asked for a test file. Please send her one: she's the lady working on the
Excel code at Microsoft.

Cheers

I suspect it's not the "Previously problematic file" that's doing the
damage. [...]
But I am [...] interested in the pathname of that file, where "pathname"
includes all of the characters down to, and including the extension. I am
just wondering whether there are any special characters anywhere in that
path name?

I made another test. I created a version of the file with a 30+
character name. I then used Save As to save the file multiple times,
starting from the parent directory and moving down to the bottom
directory, to see when the error occurs. I successfully saved the
problem file in EVERY folder (directory) until I reached final folder
-- the one containing the "problematic files".

There are no special characters in the file names or paths, unless an
underscore counts as a special character. I removed the underscore,
but saw no difference in my results.

The 29-character limit indicates that you are running "old" code that should
not be there: there was a patch that fixed this in Office 2004.  The old
limit was the old Mac OS 9 file-name limit.  That code should have been
removed by a service pack, which is why Bob suggested that you should
update.

So now that I am running "new" code, why is this character limit a
factor? Note that I can save 30+ character names in any folder EXCEPT
the folder containing "problematic files."

Any other thoughts?

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[XinXin]

XinXin is a "he", not a "she"

If you can send me a copy of the test file (better zipped in your folder structure), I'd be happy to investigate it.

Thanks,
XinXin
Macintosh Business Unit, Microsoft

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

No other thoughts: there's something inexplicable going on. XinXin has
asked for a test file. Please send her one: she's the lady working on the
Excel code at Microsoft.

Cheers

I suspect it's not the "Previously problematic file" that's doing the
damage. [...]
But I am [...] interested in the pathname of that file, where "pathname"
includes all of the characters down to, and including the extension. I am
just wondering whether there are any special characters anywhere in that
path name?

I made another test. I created a version of the file with a 30+
character name. I then used Save As to save the file multiple times,
starting from the parent directory and moving down to the bottom
directory, to see when the error occurs. I successfully saved the
problem file in EVERY folder (directory) until I reached final folder
-- the one containing the "problematic files".

There are no special characters in the file names or paths, unless an
underscore counts as a special character. I removed the underscore,
but saw no difference in my results.

The 29-character limit indicates that you are running "old" code that should
not be there: there was a patch that fixed this in Office 2004. �The old
limit was the old Mac OS 9 file-name limit. �That code should have been
removed by a service pack, which is why Bob suggested that you should
update.

So now that I am running "new" code, why is this character limit a
factor? Note that I can save 30+ character names in any folder EXCEPT
the folder containing "problematic files."

Any other thoughts?

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[apost99]

XinXin is a "he", not a "she"

If you can send me a copy of the test file (better zipped in your folder structure), I'd be happy to investigate it.

Thanks,
XinXin
Macintosh Business Unit, Microsoft

Unfortunately, the file is both proprietary (third party) and
confidential, so I doubt I can do this. I'll try to figure out a way
to replicate it without violating non-disclosure agreements and
confidentiality, but, this isn't a priority for me now as I have a
workaround. Perhaps someone else has a non-confidential file he/she
can share with XinXin.

This reminds me of another possibility... my problem file was created
on Windows by a third party. Could the Windows-to-Mac workflow be a
factor?

 

[John McGhie]

{Blush} I sit corrected

XinXin is a "he", not a "she"

If you can send me a copy of the test file (better zipped in your folder
structure), I'd be happy to investigate it.

Thanks,
XinXin
Macintosh Business Unit, Microsoft

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[John McGhie]

Absolutely "everything" is on the table until we see the file.

However, it is quite likely that a file produced in Windows XL may contain
widgets that cannot be saved by Excel 2008 on the Mac.

Be particularly suspicious of graphical elements, such as charts and
equations.

Cheers

Unfortunately, the file is both proprietary (third party) and
confidential, so I doubt I can do this. I'll try to figure out a way
to replicate it without violating non-disclosure agreements and
confidentiality, but, this isn't a priority for me now as I have a
workaround. Perhaps someone else has a non-confidential file he/she
can share with XinXin.

This reminds me of another possibility... my problem file was created
on Windows by a third party. Could the Windows-to-Mac workflow be a
factor?

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]