Download Templates

C

CyberTaz

Hello Lucie -

You can use *most* of the same templates on the MS site on a Mac. When you
attempt to download one you will get a notification if it requires ActiveX,
which isn't supported on the Mac - those you definitely can't use or even
download. The calendar templates are here:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/templates/CT101043131033.aspx

Most of the others others probably will refuse to download *automatically*
but there is a Manual Download button which will provide a file with a .cab
extension . You'll then need to unzip that file to use the template.
Complete directions are here:

http://word.mvps.org/mac/Using-Windows-Templates.html

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
 
H

Honolulu_Johnny

Aloha, All in This Thread -- At Least To Any of You Still Following It ;-)

To those who may believe they either haven't used or found no benefit from VBA or macros, I'm both happy for you, and a bit surprised. For template downloaders, more surprised than happy. If I was a gambler, odds would be very good that any Office for Mac user (pre-Office 2008 for Mac) who downloaded templates on fair amount of frequency, particularly Word or Excel, more than likely downloaded templates that contained some work in VBA.

That said, for anyone using Excel 2008, in particular, the days of simple and smooth integration between Office for Windows and Office for Mac are over without VBA & macros.

Why?

Because whether it's macro-based templates or spreadsheet files from Office for Windows (Excel), or Word and PowerPoint files linked to such files, to use them in or with Excel 2008 would require re-coding the macros in AppleScript.

That's no trivial undertaking, making it more efficient for the vast majority of cross-platform users to just stick with Excel 2004 (Mac). To do such re-coding would take even an AppleScript "wizard" a great deal of time and effort, which might be okay for anyone that gets off on masochistic pain & suffering. (See MacWorld April 2008, review of MS Office 2008, pp. 38-45; especially, pp. 40 & 41 (Excel 2008).)

Anyway, for a long-time user of Macs, my first was a MacSE in 1987, and MS Office (Mac and Windows), this transition is going to be tough going for a while. For Mac newcomers, you may want to look into a couple of additional info/reference resources:

1. MacWorld - the magazine, and online: <http://www.macworld.com/>

2. Apple Discussion Forum - <http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa> (on the Forum frontpage, in lower left column, see topics under "Windows Compatible Technology"

Again, Aloha.

HJ
 
D

DeltaNick

How can I set a default file so that Word Mac 2008 will open the way I want each time I launch it? Are there some easy-to-understand instructions anywhere? I would like to set font, tabs, spacing, magnification, window size, and window location. With nearly EVERY other Mac application, this is an easy, 1-2-3 process, and usually the last window size and location equals the next window size and location.

With Windows, just find your "Normal.dot" file, edit it the way you want, and Save. And last window size and location, as with most Mac applications, means next window size and location as well.

Is there any reason why Microsoft won't do the same for the Mac, when nearly every other Mac developer does? What I want to do with Word Mac 2008 is either impossible or EXTREMELY difficult. And if it's possible, why is it SO hard to learn?
 
J

John McGhie

It's hard to learn because the Word Help is not finished yet. We are
'encouraging' them to improve it.

Generically, the process is exactly the same as on Windows: set your
Normal.dotm the way you want to see new documents, and that's what you will
get, each time.

Microsoft actually intends it to work just this way. There is a bug in the
mechanism currently that fails to save the view positions correctly, and
another in the operating system affecting some users.

Since you didn't specify your version information, I can't tell whether
yours is one of the systems affected.

We're waiting on fixes to both bugs.

How can I set a default file so that Word Mac 2008 will open the way I want
each time I launch it? Are there some easy-to-understand instructions
anywhere? I would like to set font, tabs, spacing, magnification, window size,
and window location. With nearly EVERY other Mac application, this is an easy,
1-2-3 process, and usually the last window size and location equals the next
window size and location.

With Windows, just find your "Normal.dot" file, edit it the way you want, and
Save. And last window size and location, as with most Mac applications, means
next window size and location as well.

Is there any reason why Microsoft won't do the same for the Mac, when nearly
every other Mac developer does? What I want to do with Word Mac 2008 is either
impossible or EXTREMELY difficult. And if it's possible, why is it SO hard to
learn?

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
D

DeltaNick

It's hard to learn because the Word Help is not finished yet. We are 'encouraging' them to improve it ... Generically, the process is exactly the same as on Windows: set your Normal.dotm the way you want to see new documents, and that's what you will get, each time ... Microsoft actually intends it to work just this way. There is a bug in the mechanism currently that fails to save the view positions correctly, and another in the operating system affecting some users ... Since you didn't specify your version information, I can't tell whether yours is one of the systems affected ... We're waiting on fixes to both bugs. <<

John,

Thank you. I am using Tiger version 10.4.11, I have Leopard, but have not yet installed it, hoping for OS "fluctuation" to settle first. When I loaded Office, I updated it, so I'm at version 12.0.1.

Can I set another format as the Global "Normal"? Does it have to be "Normal.dotm"? What if I want to use another of the available formats (.dot, .xml, etc.) as the Global Normal file?

Is there a way to set the blinking, on-screen cursor back to black (mine is blue)?

DeltaNick
 
J

John McGhie

OK, you have the "View Settings don't persist" but, and Microsoft is working
on that one. You do not have the other one, which is to do with Spaces.

Yes, Normal.dotm must be in XML, and it must be a .dotm. A .dotm is an XML
template in which customisations are permitted. .dotx is the same thing
with customisations disabled (intended, on the Windows side, to prevent a
file getting any macros in it.)

You can't change the file type of Normal: if you do, Word can't use it. You
can have as many other templates as you like, but Normal.dotm sets many of
the start-up settings for Word.

I am wondering if any bad vibes have been inherited from an earlier version.
Have you ever had an earlier version on that machine?

Do a search for any other instances of Normal an drag them to the desktop.
Then quit Word, find Normal.dotm, and drag it up there too. Re-start Word
and allow it to create a new Normal, and let's see what happens. It is
possible for Normal to corrupt, a nd when it does, some settings can turn
themselves read-only.

I have no idea what the cursor problem is: that's not being done by Word,
which has no choice in cursor colours. What haxies are you running?

Cheers

John,

Thank you. I am using Tiger version 10.4.11, I have Leopard, but have not yet
installed it, hoping for OS "fluctuation" to settle first. When I loaded
Office, I updated it, so I'm at version 12.0.1.

Can I set another format as the Global "Normal"? Does it have to be
"Normal.dotm"? What if I want to use another of the available formats (.dot,
.xml, etc.) as the Global Normal file?

Is there a way to set the blinking, on-screen cursor back to black (mine is
blue)?

DeltaNick

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
D

DeltaNick

John,

Let me see if I understand you… I'm a bit confused. I cannot have the old Word format -- .doc -- as my Global Normal? Is .dotm the new Microsoft format that nobody wants to use, and Microsoft is trying to force on everyone? Or is it simply .doc with macros? I just want all my files to open in the old .doc format.

Yes, I had Microsoft Office: Mac 2004 until it was removed by the 2008 installer. I used a workaround to load Normal the way I wanted: I placed a Normal.doc file in my dock and double-clicked on that -- rather than on the Word icon -- and was able to open a Word file the way I liked each time, including proper dimensions and locations (top touched the menu bar, bottom touched the dock. But double-clicking on the Word icon did what Word 2008 does now. How can this be a bug, when virtually ALL other Mac developers allow it? The Windows default is .dot. It seems that .dot and .doc are different on Mac and Windows. What is the difference, and what exactly is .dotm? The .dot format is required to open .doc files on Windows. Again, I'm confused. The old WriteNow, Pages, Nisus are all easy for the setting of defaults. This is more of what I'd expect from Rube Goldberg.

And I tried the new Normal.dotm and the old Normals that were saved in a separate folder (I also kept a copy of the old Normal in an unrelated folder, so I could call it up if and when I wanted).

I will have to try dragging all my Normal files to the desktop to see what happens when Word builds a new Normal.dotm.

I never had a cursor problem with Word 2004. The blinking insertion point on the page is now blue, rather than black, but it was black with Word 2004. To my knowledge, I have no haxies loaded, but when I bought and loaded Audio Hijack Pro, it automatically downloaded Unsanity, which I eventually learned was a haxie and removed. But it was on my Mac for a few months, although I don’t think it ever caused any problems. I removed it as soon as I learned, but that was before I ever loaded Office:Mac 2008. The blue insertion point BEGAN with Office 2008, which I just loaded this past weekend.

Nick
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Nick:
Let me see if I understand youŠ I'm a bit confused. I cannot have the old Word
format -- .doc -- as my Global Normal?

That's correct. The old format can not store all the settings Word 2008
needs.
Is .dotm the new Microsoft format that
nobody wants to use, and Microsoft is trying to force on everyone?

It's compressed XML. I do not know why "anyone" would not want to use it.
It is one quarter the size of the old format, and much, much more rugged.
It can also contain hundreds of properties that the old .doc format cannot.
Or is it simply .doc with macros?

It is macro-enabled, that's correct. However, it won't have any macros in
it in 2008. If you put macros in it, they will stay there, silently
ignored.
I just want all my files to open in the old .doc format.

There must be a reason for that, but I am a bit mystified what it could be?

You do not seem to have been told that the old .doc format will not contain
all the items that Word 2008 can create. If you use the new graphics
functionality, that will all be downgraded when you save as .doc. After
that, it can't be edited properly, on either Mac or PC.
Yes, I had Microsoft Office: Mac 2004 until it was removed by the 2008
installer. I used a workaround to load Normal the way I wanted: I placed a
Normal.doc file in my dock and double-clicked on that -- rather than on the
Word icon -- and was able to open a Word file the way I liked each time,
including proper dimensions and locations (top touched the menu bar, bottom
touched the dock.

Eeeewwww.... That's ugly! You are starting Word off with half the document
object model missing. No wonder you're having an interesting time :)
But double-clicking on the Word icon did what Word 2008 does
now. How can this be a bug, when virtually ALL other Mac developers allow it?

I am not sure what you are talking about. Your View settings should be
written back to your preferences and your Normal.dotm when you quit Word.
There's a bug that is causing some of them not to be written. That's one
they are working on.
The Windows default is .dot.

No: .dotm, same as Word 2008. That's *why* Word 2008 has a .dotm, even
though it doesn't have macros. The .dotm is "macro-enabled" which means it
will store customisations such as toolbars and keystrokes, which would
otherwise be disabled.

The other template format is .dotx. That's similar to the Mac's Stationery
file: it disables "active" content, so it can be safely used from
"untrusted" locations.
It seems that .dot and .doc are different on Mac and Windows.

No: They are byte-for-byte exactly the same, internally. On the Mac, they
have a resource fork (which is basically unused and not present on the
Windows version). But otherwise, they are exactly the same thing in binary.
What exactly is .dotm?

All three formats are ISO-standard XML, stored in a base-64 (Zipped)
container. If you change the file extension of one of them to ".zip" you
can open them and have a look. Inside you will find a little "website", all
strung together with a "Rels" file that shows Word which components exist
and what their names are. Do this on a "copy". Once you have unzipped it,
unless you have special tools you can't put it back together again.

The .docx format is the Word 12 format. No longer binary, it is now
eXtensible Markup Language encoded in Unicode. If you have a look, you will
see that it's a complex collection of nested containers within containers
that contain all the objects that make up a Word document.

Many of the problems with Word document corruption are due to the fact that
the original binary format was overloaded with so many new bits that it
became very unstable. Internally, the entire thing was held together by
offsets: binary numbers that indicated how many bits from the front of the
file each component was stored. Those offsets used to get corrupted,
rendering the entire file unreadable. XML fixes that: no offsets any more,
if an error occurs in the file, Word can simply ignore that bit and continue
to read the file. Since it's ANSI Unicode, it can be compressed by 70 per
cent. And since it's "extensible" the format can now contain anything you
care to write in there, including all the new stuff that's coming in later
versions of Word.

The .dotx format is the same coding language, but it has a different
internal structure, with added containers for themes and customisations such
as toolbars.

The .dotm format is the same internal structure as the .dotx, but has two
new containers added to enable the storing of active content such as macros.
The .dot format is required to open .doc files on Windows.

Who told you that? It's not true. A Word document makes no further
reference to the .dot file after it is created. From then on, everything is
contained in the .doc file. The .dot is not even needed for document
creation. Windows Word can create a file using its internal defaults
without the .dot even being present.

However: Normal.dot is a special case: it is used as a repository to store
user customisations, such as styles and autotexts. It's the user's personal
bucket, into which Word saves user changes to the Word environment.
Again, I'm confused. The old
WriteNow, Pages, Nisus are all easy for the setting of defaults. This is more
of what I'd expect from Rube Goldberg.

Word is a far more powerful application than those ones. It is capable of
creating documents with massively greater complexity. So it has a large
number of default settings that those simpler applications neither have nor
need. If you compare the dashboard of your car to the cockpit of a 747, you
may notice one or two extra features, also.

Your car won't cross oceans at close to the speed of sound, and probably
doesn't need four sets of engine controls :) There are many simpler "text"
applications than Word out there. If your needs are very basic, that's what
you should be using. If you occasionally need to take on documents > 1,000
pages with hundreds of graphics and exacting style specifications, Word is
the weapon of choice :)
And I tried the new Normal.dotm and the old Normals that were saved in a
separate folder (I also kept a copy of the old Normal in an unrelated folder,
so I could call it up if and when I wanted).

I am not sure what you meant by "try". A Normal template contains several
thousand settings. More in a .dotm. The settings from one version of Word
are not appropriate for a different version. In some cases the settings
conflict, and will cause crashes, freezes and hangs. If you mix and match
templates like that, you are asking for trouble, and trust me, you WILL get
it :)
I will have to try dragging all my Normal files to the desktop to see what
happens when Word builds a new Normal.dotm.

That's worth doing at the first sign of trouble. You lose many of your
customisations when you do that, so it's a good idea to keep your Normal
carefully backed up.
I never had a cursor problem with Word 2004. The blinking insertion point on
the page is now blue, rather than black, but it was black with Word 2004. To
my knowledge, I have no haxies loaded, but when I bought and loaded Audio
Hijack Pro, it automatically downloaded Unsanity, which I eventually learned
was a haxie and removed. But it was on my Mac for a few months, although I
don¹t think it ever caused any problems. I removed it as soon as I learned,
but that was before I ever loaded Office:Mac 2008. The blue insertion point
BEGAN with Office 2008, which I just loaded this past weekend.

Yeah. That interests me. Nothing in Office 2008 has the ability to change
the cursor colour. Office 2008 is a surprisingly well-behaved OS X citizen,
it uses the Apple OS X components for a great deal of what you see,
including using the Apple cursors.

Hope this helps

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
D

DeltaNick

John,

Whoa! I think we got out in front of each other!

The main reason I got MS Office is so that I could stay compatible with my workplace and my friends. Nobody at my workplace and none of my friends uses .docx, nor has the slightest desire to go through ANOTHER round of Microsoft "upgrades." The docx. format may have the advantages you state, but Microsoft has cried "Wolf!" way too many times before, with totally unnecessary and bloated updates. Nobody is listening any more, and nobody trusts Microsoft. Vista is merely another reason not to trust Microsoft any more, following the Windows Genuine Advantage fiasco. Until others start using the .docx format, I would prefer to use something MUCH simpler, and much less bloated. Most people simply want to write a letter, or do a term paper for a college (university) course. Most other word processors can do that MUCH more simply.

I work at one of Microsoft's largest customers, although it's a Windows environment. They REFUSE to update to Vista and have not switched to Office 2007. Too many of us complained about the totally unnecessary changes in Office 2003. An example: one of Microsoft Word 2003’s defaults needed to be turned off. However, it took me WEEKS to learn that it had to be turned off in all of three different locations for it to stop working. There was nothing in the documentation, absolutely nothing. Another: Microsoft simply moves functions around to make their applications “new” or “updated.” Yes, I know they add legitimately new features, but many features are not legitimately new, but of the “see if you can find it now” variety. People DESPISE this! And fewer and fewer of our SysAdmin and Help Desk people respect the entity known as Microsoft. Nobody at my workplace LIKES Microsoft products, but we are forced to use them. And I’m sure you’ve seen the recently-revealed internal e-mails attesting to Microsoft Senior Executives’ inability to use Vista in their own homes.

So, bottom line: I don’t WANT to use Microsoft Word, I MUST use it. It is painful to use on Windows, and it seems even MORE painful to use on the Mac. And the Mac is supposed to make things simpler, remedy the bloatware known as Windows. So, I hope you understand my predicament. You don’t need to advertise the Genuine Windows Advantage, nor the advantages of Microsoft Office or Microsoft Word. I am only TOO familiar with them: I’ve used Word since the 1980s.

That being stated, I am trying to make Word 2008 work well on my Mac, and it works LESS than what I would consider well. What I consider “well” is when an application does what I want it to do, not when it dictates the terms of my online life. And in general, I find the Mac to be a pleasant platform, unlike Windows. With Windows, I must “fight” the platform, and with Microsoft’s apps, I must “fight” them as well, even on the Mac. Microsoft seems to have a deaf ear when it comes to customer needs and desires.

Now, when discussing Normal formats, I think you referred to Office 2007, but I was referring to Office 2003. Remember, Vista and 2007 are NOT being used at my workplace, nor by anyone I know. And I have SERIOUS doubts whether they ever WILL be used. Such is the distaste for Microsoft at one of its largest customers. In fact, I have NEVER run across .docx until now, and I use Microsoft Word on 5 different computers daily: all legal, 4 of them Windows, and one Mac. So, my main task is to stay compatible with the .doc format, which uses the .dot default -- “Normal.dot” -- format. I’ve never seen Word 2007, and I hope I never do. In fact, I’m not even curious about it.

If you are saying that I must use the .docx format to use Office 2008, but I can send documents saved in the .doc format, I’ll see if it’s a viable solution. I am committed to try and make this work well. Configuring Word for Mac 2004 was painful, but I was able to use the workaround I described in my last e-mail.

And if you think having my Word window ope
 
D

DeltaNick

And if you think having my Word window open automatically from the dock to the menu bar is ugly, then I will say that it's ugly because it cannot do so. It's a matter of taste, and here, my taste is what matters. I try to use my large Mac screen to its maximum "real estate" capability. Having the top of the Word window open an eighth of an inch from the menu bar is a waste of space: I can't do anything in that one-eighth of an inch! Since I always open at least 3 applications (word processor, e-mail, and browser), I position them the way I like, the way I prefer. And since I use 5 computers daily, I pretty much try to have things set up nearly the same on each for obvious reasons. I am asking your assistance, as an MVP, in getting me there, not as an interior designer. I also would like my documents to open at 120% or 125% size, to visualize my page more pleasantly. The 100% size certainly seems quite a bit smaller than actual size.

All of my toolbar preferences do not hold, only some of them, and I cannot figure out why. I want the toolbars to look balanced from left-to-right, so I’ve tried to put separators (“begin new group”) between all items. Some stay, and some disappear. This is also frustrating. Microsoft Word seems to have a mind of its own, and it doesn’t let me set it the way I want. I install those “begin new group” separators the exact same way, during the same session, but Word picks and chooses what it wants, and I cannot!

And then, there’s my blue cursor insertion point. Upon further examination, I’ve discovered that it’s not ONLY the insertion point, but my paragraph symbols, returns, and tab arrows too (I use “Show all non-printing characters”).

But I have had success in setting the default font, tabs, and margins that I want. Apparently a simple thing, it took me weeks or even months to do so with Word 2004. I simply couldn’t do it, so I developed my workaround: a locked .doc file -- set the way I want -- in my dock. I’ve already tried this with Word 2008, but it doesn’t work.

I’m one who usually reads how to set default files and formats. It works with EVERY Mac application I’ve ever done it with, except two: Word 2004 and Word 2008 (I haven’t even tried with Excel and PowerPoint, which I use less often).

I will try to work on this, and I could certainly use your advice, and I thank you for taking this on. But please realize that issues such as this are what turns people off to anything Microsoft. Word may be the world’s most capable word processor, but at what price?

I wish Microsoft would truly understand this. Vista seems to be evidence that they haven’t a clue.

So, here’s my list of what I CANNOT do with Word:

1. Cannot set default position/location on-screen: will not open a document fully to the menu bar (and same at bottom), unless I drag it there each time.

2. Will not hold “Print Layout” view within the Window. I must reposition it each time. When I set it at 125% and open a new document, it is NOT centered, and some of the page is out-of-view. If I want it evenly centered, where equal amounts of margin (and beyond) are displayed each time I open a new file, what am I to do? Again, Word seems to do what IT wants to do, not what I want it to do.

3. Will not hold all my toolbar and “begin new group” separator settings, only some of them.

4. Blue, blinking insertion point, paragraph symbols, returns, and tab arrows when using “Show all non-printing characters”: I would like them black, as in previous versions.

5. When I turn “Show all non-printing characters” off, they don’t disappear.

There may be a few others that I cannot think of, but these are my initial major complaints, right now.

And another complaint: now that Word is “native” with my Intel Mac, it takes MUCH longer to launch or open. I was expecting a “faster” application. It certainly seems slower. And Nisus takes fewer than 3 seconds!

Nick
 
H

Honolulu_Johnny

Aloha, Delta Nick, and Other Interested Readers.

First, I sympathize and empathize with much of what you've written, DN. In fact, I'm grateful for the five (5) issues/questions you've posted, and hopeful someone out there knows how to resolve them -- for me, 1 and 3, in particular are especially aggravating.

As in an earlier post, the lack of macros functionality (and absence of VBA) in Office 2008 for Mac will continue to cause issues for any user wanting to use templates and files that contain macros or VBA from other versions Office. As I'd alluded to, and John McGhie more explicitly highlighted, those components of a non-2008 file/template that depend on macros/VBA are "ignored" in Office 2008.

Moreover, it's actually not cross-platform issue in the typical sense of that term, except to the extent only Office 2008 for Mac is affected. Why? Because whether the non-2008 file/template that contains macros or VBA enhancements came from Office (2004, etc.) for Mac, or Office for Windows (2003, 2007, etc.), these elements of the file/template are simply not in Office 2008 for Mac's "lexicon", so to speak. In other words, it's a serious issue, specific to Office 2008 for Mac.

In my earlier post on this, I offered a reference to MacWorld's review of Office 2008. It's a good review and their website/forum may be a place to find additional info related to your list of five issues.

That said, I was surprised (more like aghast) that another review of Office 2008 by the Mac-focused publication "Mac|Life" (formerly, "MacAddict") did not even mention one word of Office 2008's "No-macros/VBA" problem! Not sure if that's due to Microsoft's quietness, or just due to that publication's general decline in technical depth since its name-change and makeover.

Aloha, and best of luck. If you find the answers to your list, please post them here.

Thanks,

HJ
 
J

John McGhie

Nobody is listening any more, and nobody trusts Microsoft.

Ah, OK. That saves me a lot of time.

I was about to give you a considered response. But since you're not
listening... :)

Cheers

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
D

DeltaNick

John,

That was my assessment of the others at my workplace. I know the SysAdmin and speak to him about our software often. He's told me there are no plans for us to install Vista, nor Office 2007 ... and why.

As I wrote above, "I could certainly use your advice, and I thank you for taking this on." I am LOOKING for a considered response. I was also trying to impart to you the extreme frustration Microsoft's products bring, keeping in mind that they charge LOTS of money for their software. One would expect a bit more "Customer Service." I know that you and the other MVPs are volunteers, and not Microsoft employees.

I visited my local Apple store yesterday, and experimented a bit with Office 2008 on several of the Macs: all of them had the blue, blinking insertion point, paragraph symbols, return symbols, and tab arrow symbols when using "Show all non-printing characters." So this, apparently, is the way it's supposed to be, a bit of a surprise. And all, of course, would not hold the last position on screen, but opened with that 1/16- or 1/8-inch gap from Apple's menu bar, what I consider to be wasted space.

So, please try to understand the dissatisfaction on my part and from others, even in this blog. We are all trying to "right" what we think are "wrongs" committed by Microsoft, and are requesting MVP assistance. Some things seem to make absolutely no sense at all. Since the software is expensive, we feel further aggrieved. We may vent, but it's not directed at the MVPs, who are trying to provide that service we believe we deserve ... voluntarily. We thank you for all you do.

Nick
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Nick:

OK, I understand that you have issues with Microsoft Software. What I don't
understand is why you don't choose to tell all of this to Microsoft?

I really have no interest in hearing YOUR complaints about Word 2008,
because I have my own. And of course, I think that mine are so much more
important than everyone else's :)

I have my own list of things I would rather they changed. And believe me,
they know about it. I have taken great glee in sending all my comments to
Microsoft. Then I spent last week in the USA, beating them up in person :)

But this is not the place for those comments: Microsoft is not reading in
here. They set this up as a forum in which fellow users can help each other
out. You can use Help>Send Feedback in any Office 2008 application to send
your comments directly to Microsoft. I was talking to the lady who reads
and analyses it all.

My purpose in here is to help users to "use" this software, the way they
made it. That means using the product the way they built it.

Each of the products you mention has a purpose. Each of them is designed
for a different market.

Word 2007 is the most powerful and the fastest. It's the one I use by
preference if I can. Yes, I spent at least two months swearing at the new
user interface before I learned my way around it. Now, I get frustrated
when I don't have it: the Mac interface is very slow and fiddly in
comparison. I also run mainly in the new file format, because it is a
quarter the size and very much more rugged.

Word 2003 is a good solid job, but it's not as good: not as fast, not as
stable, and it doesn't do as well with the new file format. I also find the
old-style UI a bit clunky.

Word 2004 is my choice on the Mac. Slow, and limited, but it's the best
there is on the Mac.

Word 2008 is a work in progress. That work will have to progress quite a
lot further before I can use it. But other people find it very suitable to
their needs.

There are even people to whom I would recommend Vista :) Yes, it's slow
and bloated and it nags you to death. But it's much more secure and robust
than its predecessor, and much more able to defend itself against the
assaults of under-skilled users. I recommend it to all the "family and
friends" who are likely to blow up their computers and then ring me up late
at night to get them going again. Since installing Vista in several of the
trouble spots in my circle of friends, I sleep much better at night these
days :)

I also use Vista here on this MacBook. Again, its ruggedness means it
survives better in a virtual machine (Parallels) than Windows XP does.

My OS of choice is Windows 2008 (which just came out). That's the Server
version of Vista, with most of the eye-candy and bloat removed. It makes a
damn fine workstation OS if you have at least 4 GB of RAM :)

Cheers

John,

That was my assessment of the others at my workplace. I know the SysAdmin and
speak to him about our software often. He's told me there are no plans for us
to install Vista, nor Office 2007 ... and why.

As I wrote above, "I could certainly use your advice, and I thank you for
taking this on." I am LOOKING for a considered response. I was also trying to
impart to you the extreme frustration Microsoft's products bring, keeping in
mind that they charge LOTS of money for their software. One would expect a bit
more "Customer Service." I know that you and the other MVPs are volunteers,
and not Microsoft employees.

I visited my local Apple store yesterday, and experimented a bit with Office
2008 on several of the Macs: all of them had the blue, blinking insertion
point, paragraph symbols, return symbols, and tab arrow symbols when using
"Show all non-printing characters." So this, apparently, is the way it's
supposed to be, a bit of a surprise. And all, of course, would not hold the
last position on screen, but opened with that 1/16- or 1/8-inch gap from
Apple's menu bar, what I consider to be wasted space.

So, please try to understand the dissatisfaction on my part and from others,
even in this blog. We are all trying to "right" what we think are "wrongs"
committed by Microsoft, and are requesting MVP assistance. Some things seem to
make absolutely no sense at all. Since the software is expensive, we feel
further aggrieved. We may vent, but it's not directed at the MVPs, who are
trying to provide that service we believe we deserve ... voluntarily. We thank
you for all you do.

Nick

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
D

DeltaNick

Hi John,

Thanks. I will do that. But first, I thought I'd shake out all the problems at the lowest, user level. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Maybe there's something I've missed, and as you've explained, there are some bugs that are possibly being repaired. So far, you've provided me with several EXCELLENT responses. Thank you! I didn't understand the part about the new format being more compact and more comprehensive (press reports spotlighted Microsoft's "heavy-handed arm twisting" in global forums, but not much else). I didn't understand fully about the formats. Although I still don't FULLY understand, I do understand MORE now than before.

Returning to my list …

1. Cannot set default position/location on-screen: will not open a document fully to the menu bar (and same at bottom), unless I drag it there each time.

NOT SOLVED.

2. Will not hold “Print Layout” view within the Window. I must reposition it each time. When I set it at 125% and open a new document, it is NOT centered, and some of the page is out-of-view. If I want it evenly centered, where equal amounts of margin (and beyond) are displayed each time I open a new file, what am I to do? Again, Word seems to do what IT wants to do, not what I want it to do.

SOLVED: I figured this out on my own.

3. Will not hold all my toolbar and “begin new group” separator settings, only some of them.

SOLVED: Although extremely difficult to do, I was finally able to set my toolbars they way I want. Microsoft shouldn’t make this process so painful, but …

4. Blue, blinking insertion point, paragraph symbols, returns, and tab arrows when using “Show all non-printing characters”: I would like them black, as in previous versions.

SOLVED: All these characters are supposed to be blue in Office 2008. It's the way they appear on all the Macs at my local Apple Store.

5. When I turn “Show all non-printing characters” off, they don’t disappear.

NOT SOLVED.

So, as you see, I have only two remaining “problems”:

1. >> Your View settings should be written back to your preferences and your Normal.dotm when you quit Word. There’s a bug that is causing some of them not to be written. That’s one they are working on. <<

2. When I turn “Show all non-printing characters” off, they don’t disappear.

DeltaNick
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Nick:

Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

In most cases, I don't think you are. There are a LOT of bugs in Word 2008.
1. Cannot set default position/location on-screen: will not open a document
fully to the menu bar (and same at bottom), unless I drag it there each time.

NOT SOLVED.

Bug. Wait for the service pack.
3. Will not hold all my toolbar and ³begin new group² separator settings, only
some of them.

SOLVED: Although extremely difficult to do, I was finally able to set my
toolbars they way I want. Microsoft shouldn¹t make this process so painful,
but Š

This "may" have been user error :)
2. When I turn ³Show all non-printing characters² off, they don¹t disappear.

Just check your settings in Word>Preferences>View, in the Non-printing
characters section. Show/Hide toggles the setting of "All".

If any of the other settings are ON, Show/Hide will not toggle them, they
will remain on.

So with Show/Hide ON, All should be the only one ticked, and with Show/Hide
OFF, none should be ticked.

The computer press can be a bit of a worry. Like anything else,
commercialisation and cost-cutting have taken their toll. These days, a
large proportion of the content you read about Microsoft products is
actually written by Microsoft's Marketing Department.

That's because the printed media are saving costs by having their magazines
printed in China. So their deadline occurs two or three months before
on-sale date, to give the ship time to get back to the USA with the copies.

This means that a large percentage of the printed publications do not test
the products AT ALL, and those that do give their reviewers THREE DAYS to
install, learn, test, and write a report on the software.

It's not going to be a very searching test :) I was offered such a
contract once (because I used to be a journalist). When I discovered that I
would have three days to file if I wanted to get paid, I declined. I can't
afford to have my name on that kind of article :)

The online sources save costs by having very few journalists (some sites
have "none"). So they are easily sucked in by the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty
and Doubt) spread by Microsoft's competitors.

The Open-Source movement and the ABM (Anyone But Microsoft) camp are
particularly poisonous about the ISO Standard Office XML format currently
used by Microsoft.

That's because they hoped their competing standard would be adopted instead.
In turn, because their applications are not powerful enough to handle all
the things that can exist in an OXML file. Neither is Mac Word 2008, but
that point seems to have been lost in translation.

What they really do not seem to want us to inspect too closely is that their
competing ODF (Open Document Format) seems to have rather missed the point
of being in XML.

There are two "kinds" of Markup Language out there. The "SGML
Applications", of which OXML is one, and the "HTML-like" applications, of
which ODF is one. The difference is that in an SGML document, you can store
anything you like, provided you define how to handle it in the Document Type
Definition (DTD) and the Formatting Output Specification Instance (FOSI).

In ODF, you have a fixed syntax, like HTML, in which the legal objects are
pre-defined. ODF-based applications lack the ability to accept new objects.
You could theoretically extend ODF, but if you did, the ODF applications
couldn't handle the content.

Note to the purists amongst us: Neither of those statements above is 100
per cent accurate. If you insist on a complete and accurate description,
download all 6,000 pages of the OXML specification.

The DTD specifies what is legal in the document. The FOSI specifies how the
receiving application should handle each kind of content. In XML, the DTD
and the FOSI can be combined into an XSLT (XML Style Sheet and Transform).
The XSLT can, in turn, be "implied" (built-in to the application so you do
not need to store it in the document). In OXML it is implied, and you can
add your own XSLT to it, or replace it entirely.

One of the more amusing allegations that you will hear is that Microsoft XML
does not "comply" with the XML standard. Only someone who has completely
missed the point of XML could write such an allegation.

XML is a "Syntax", a "Language" if you like. There are two stages to
"compliance": "Well-formed", and "Valid".

Well-formed means that the syntax within the file conforms to XML coding
standards. It's like grammar and spelling in a piece of English text.

Microsoft XML has ALWAYS been "Well-formed". If it weren't, Word would
crash trying to open it (umm... Sometimes, Word 'does' crash trying to open
it, and you can guarantee that the code in that file is NOT well-formed at
the time!).

Valid means that the language within the file complies with the rules
defined in the Document Type Definition. Microsoft has occasionally been a
little careless in that area, but due to bugs, not malevolent intent.

However, in the same way as English Grammar and Spelling makes no comment
about what we may describe with the English language, the XML Standard makes
no comment about what a coder may describe in an XML document. You can put
anything you like in there, provided you observe the rules of the grammar,
and spell and punctuate it properly. And that is the whole POINT of having
XML in the first place. That's what the "X" in XML stands for:
"eXtensible".

Each new Microsoft XML application (e.g. Word, Excel, PowerPoint...) adds a
few new widgets to the XSLT. Which becomes an extremely inconvenient truth
to those competitors attempting to handle the Microsoft file formats.

While they are very fond of issuing press-releases accusing Microsoft of
failing to follow the rules, they seem to go deathly quiet if you point out
that Apple's Pages seems to have no trouble with the format :)

Does this mean that Microsoft is purer than the driven snow? Of course not.
But it's no worse than its competitors, and better than many of them.
Software marketing is a contact sport: people get hurt. Some companies need
to understand that crying about it on the Internet, or running off to the
referee when you get hit, will not win the next match!

Do I like this state of affairs? Not much. I remember when the industry
was a kinder, gentler place. I also remember that a word-processor then
cost $15,000 per seat, couldn't handle a file larger than 50 pages, and
wouldn't line things up properly unless you used a font of exactly 10
points. :)

Hope this helps

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
D

DeltaNick

Hi John,

Here's another problem that I've recently discovered.

Although I keep a Normal.dotm file as default, I need to send a .doc file to my workplace (Windows XP Pro and Office 2003) and to my Windows machine, at home (Windows XP Home and Office 2003), from my Mac. So, I save files in .doc and send.

At home, I receive TWO files, identically named, but of different size. The first is pretty much same size as on the Mac -- say 85KB -- and the second is normally something like 409B. The first opens fine, and is the same document as on the Mac. The second is pure gibberish, and asks whether I want it encoded for Windows, MS-DOS, or other format. Whatever I try, it's gibberish.

At work, I receive only ONE file: the gibberish file.

How can I get a file that I can use? The .docx format is of no use for me in this case, because with XP and Office 2003, I cannot read it. A converter may work at home, but I cannot install any software at work.

Nick
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Nick:

This has nothing to do with "Templates". You will get much better service
if you start a new thread for a new question.

You have set your email up to send "AppleDouble" file format. Your home
computer is set up correctly to decode AppleDouble and throw away the
resource fork.

Your work computer is misconfigured and is attempting to process the
resource fork file, which is a binary file that makes no sense except on a
Macintosh.

Change your email to send MIME and all will be well. The resource fork is
unused in Office (and most other Unix-based programs, these days).

Both your home and work computers should be capable of reading and writing
..docx files. If you do not have Windows Update running at home, your
computer should offer to go and get the converter if it doesn't already have
it.

At work, the converter should already be there: it was published about two
years ago by Microsoft. It may be set to "Install on Demand", just
double-click a file and Word will go and get it. If it isn't, tell your
system administrator they've slipped up, and they'll drop it in for you.

Hope this helps

Hi John,

Here's another problem that I've recently discovered.

Although I keep a Normal.dotm file as default, I need to send a .doc file to
my workplace (Windows XP Pro and Office 2003) and to my Windows machine, at
home (Windows XP Home and Office 2003), from my Mac. So, I save files in .doc
and send.

At home, I receive TWO files, identically named, but of different size. The
first is pretty much same size as on the Mac -- say 85KB -- and the second is
normally something like 409B. The first opens fine, and is the same document
as on the Mac. The second is pure gibberish, and asks whether I want it
encoded for Windows, MS-DOS, or other format. Whatever I try, it's gibberish.

At work, I receive only ONE file: the gibberish file.

How can I get a file that I can use? The .docx format is of no use for me in
this case, because with XP and Office 2003, I cannot read it. A converter may
work at home, but I cannot install any software at work.

Nick

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
G

Gerrie Louden

The templates for Mac Office users still seem to be gone. Where are they? (e-mail address removed)
 
J

John McGhie

Here:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/templates/FX100595491033.aspx

Complete directions are here:

http://word.mvps.org/mac/Using-Windows-Templates.html

There is work going on to allow Mac Office users automatic access to Office
Online. We have no recent updates on the progress of that effort.

Sorry... Some idiot let the Lawyers in, and now it's going to take
forever...

Cheers

The templates for Mac Office users still seem to be gone. Where are they?
(e-mail address removed)

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top