How do I make Office look like a normal application?

[Jason Cipriani]

I got a computer with Office 2007 installed. How do I make Word and Excel,
and the rest of them, look like a normal application, with like... menu bars
and stuff... ? I can't find the option (actually it took me a while to find
*any* options at all, but I haven't found one for this yet).

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Gordon]

I got a computer with Office 2007 installed. How do I make Word and Excel,
and the rest of them, look like a normal application, with like... menu
bars
and stuff... ? I can't find the option (actually it took me a while to
find
*any* options at all, but I haven't found one for this yet).

Thanks,
Jason

There isn't any option (at least not natively) - you will need a third-party
utility to do it. And if you take the (short) time to investigate and learn,
you will soon find that you won't need to go back to the "menu" bars. Don't
forget, you can put all your frequently used commands onto the QAT (Quick
Access Toolbar).

 

[Jason Cipriani]

Thank you for your quick reply.

There isn't any option (at least not natively) - you will need a third-party
utility to do it.

Do you know what the name of this utility is, or where I can find it?

And if you take the (short) time to investigate and learn,
you will soon find that you won't need to go back to the "menu" bars.

I'm not interested in learning about one application that is different from
every other application on my system... I'd rather just have consistency. The
"File" menu may be ugly but at least I can rest assured that I can always
find it in the same place with no struggle. Anyways it looks like it was
written in Flash or something.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Jason Cipriani]

Thank you for your quick reply.

There isn't any option (at least not natively) - you will need a third-party
utility to do it.

Do you know what the name of this utility is, or where I can find it?

And if you take the (short) time to investigate and learn,
you will soon find that you won't need to go back to the "menu" bars.

I'm not interested in learning about one application that is different from
every other application on my system... I'd rather just have consistency. The
"File" menu may be ugly but at least I can rest assured that I can always
find it in the same place with no struggle. Anyways it looks like it was
written in Flash or something.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Gordon]

Thank you for your quick reply.



Do you know what the name of this utility is, or where I can find it?

Fair few here:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Classic+menu+Office+2007&btnG=Search&meta=

I'm not interested in learning about one application that is different
from
every other application on my system...

Hmmm - so when you get a NEW application, you don't bother to learn about it
because it's different from the others you have? Sorry, I don't buy that one
at all.

 

[Chris Game]

I got a computer with Office 2007 installed. How do I make Word
and Excel, and the rest of them, look like a normal application,
with like... menu bars and stuff... ? I can't find the option
(actually it took me a while to find *any* options at all, but I
haven't found one for this yet).

The modern trend, supported by usability studies, is to use toolbar
icons not menus. If you stop trying to work O2007 as if it were O97,
you soon get the hang of the new 'ribbon' interface, it's very
intuitive.

 

[Jason Cipriani]

Hmmm - so when you get a NEW application, you don't bother to learn about it
because it's different from the others you have? Sorry, I don't buy that one
at all.

I don't buy that at all either. That was an astounding leap of logic you
made from not wanting to use an MS Office interface that treats me like a 5
year old to not wanting to use an "application that's different". That's
probably why you don't buy it either -- because it doesn't make any sense.

When IE7 came out, it rearranged the layout from the standard interface.
Nothing was gained but using it was inconvenient. I don't see ribbons in IE7.
Office 2007 uses this *other* ugly new interface. Now that's fine if MS is
going to change all their software to use some new thing but if they're going
to come up with something completely new for every new application then, no
thanks.

I was a loyal Microsoft user for years, and IE7 prompted my switch to
Firefox. I have been a loyal Office user for years as well but I've found a
better utility to convert to class menus here: http://www.openoffice.org/

So to correct what you said, when a new application comes out with a crappy
interface that fixes something I never had a problem with, and there are
alternatives, then no I would not bother learning them. Why should I bother
learning Office 2007 when a good alternative exists? I no longer wish to use
MS Office so I could care less what direction they take the interface in.

Thanks anyways,
Jason

 

[Jason Cipriani]

So to correct what you said, when a new application comes out with a crappy
interface that fixes something I never had a problem with, and there are
alternatives, then no I would not bother learning them. Why should I bother
learning Office 2007 when a good alternative exists? I no longer wish to use
MS Office so I could care less what direction they take the interface in.

And by the way, Gordon, it's stressful enough trying to learn a new UI, when
somebody comes here and asks for help about it, the last thing they want to
deal with is some weaselly guy getting over-defensive about the UI in his
favorite office suite...

 

[Lucy Thomson]

Hi Jason

I understand your frustration as there is a sharp learning curve, but I
found it worthwhile in the end (I work with both 2003 and 2007 and now get
annoyed that 2003 can't do some of the good stuff like live preview....). I
just wanted to make sure you knew about the MS provided resources such as an
interactive
online guide where you click on how you would do something in 2003 and it
shows you where that is in 2007 and downloadable spreadsheets that you can
search for 'lost' commands:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-au/training/HA102295841033.aspx

There are also training modules just for 2007:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-au/training/HA102255331033.aspx


Lucy

 

[Gemini]

"it's very intuitive."

I respectfully disagree. I used the trial version (primarily Excel) for
almost two months. I happen to use Excel heavily. Besides the fact that Excel
crashed randomly, the Ribbon interface was illogical, confusing and
counterproductive. There are plenty of user, esp. long time ones like myself,
who have found the Ribbon to be a productivity killer.

I and several others have asked Jensen Harris (he led the team that designed
the Ribbon) about the way the user data was collected AND the way the
"acceptance" number (85%) was calculated. No answer from Jensen Harris! That
in itself speaks volumes.

I strongly suspect that had MS provided a choice for users (the classic UI),
the acceptance number would have been far lower. Subtract the "captive" users
(the poor souls who HAVE to use that Ribbon), and the number would be lower
still.

Oh well! I got rid of Office 2007 and went back to Office 2003. Excel no
longer crashes. Since it looks like MS has no interest in providing a classic
menu, despite requests from thousands of users, it also caused me to look
into OpenOffice and Zoho.

Now MS has the Search Commands thing available from Office Labs. As a poster
commented, it would be better to provide a classic menu option than the
Search Command kludge. I totally agree.

Oh yes, since Office 2007 provides no value add for me, there's absolutely
no reason for me (and others like me) to invest time & energy learning the
Ribbon thing.

-- gemini.

 

[Harlan Grove]

Hmmm - so when you get a NEW application, you don't bother to learn about it
because it's different from the others you have? Sorry, I don't buy that one
at all.

Depends on what one means by 'new'. There's a big difference between
same application but newer version (in which case radical change
unwelcome is a rational response) and an application one has never
used before.

 

[Harlan Grove]

"it's very intuitive."

I respectfully disagree. I used the trial version (primarily Excel) for

....

This is the BIG problem with Office. Most Office users use Word, so
whatever may be perceived as good for Word and Word users gets force-
fed to users of other Office applications. Probably not a problem for
PowerPoint or Outlook.

However, what's good for Word isn't necessarily good for Excel, and
the ribbon is positively bad for Excel. Ain't all that good for Access
either.

 

[Chris Game]

However, what's good for Word isn't necessarily good for Excel,
and the ribbon is positively bad for Excel.

I don't see how basic questions of complexity and usability
resulting in improved presentation of user options wouldn't apply to
Excel just as much as to Word. If there are bugs in the
implementation that is a different issue.

There's no doubt that individual users tend to repeat the same tasks
so each user has their own set of commands and options they tend to
use over and over, they are effectively trained to use the apps in
their own individual way. Changing this is hard, you have to forget
the old ways and learn the new. Does it pay off in the end? Studies
show it does (ok MSFT did the studies but they have an interest in
reducing user confusion and errors don't they?)

--
Chris Game

"I do not write for such dull elves,
As have not a great deal of ingenuity themselves."
-- Jane Austen

 

[Harlan Grove]

I don't see how basic questions of complexity and usability
resulting in improved presentation of user options wouldn't apply to
Excel just as much as to Word. If there are bugs in the
implementation that is a different issue.

....

You aren't really an Excel user, are you?

. . . you have to forget the old ways and learn the new.

Or choose not to upgrade, or use non-Microsoft software, or use Office
on a Mac. To repeat a point I made in a different thread, Office 2008
for Macs seems to provide all the nifty new features without the @#$
%&*! ribbon interface, so the ribbon isn't NECESSARY for providing the
new features.

Does it pay off in the end? Studies show it does . . .

Really? Where's the data?

. . . (ok MSFT did the studies . . .

and won't make the data public

. . . but they have an interest in reducing user confusion and errors don't they?)

No. They have an interest in selling their own software and making it
more difficult for users to use non-Microsoft software. The ribbon
hasn't reduced user confusion or errors.

 

[Gemini]

Chris, I (amongst many other users), don't see the need for the Ribbon at
all. The menus were just fine.

IMO, MS has tried to shove the new UI down users' throats. Had they provided
a choice, I'm willing to bet that the Ribbon would have fallen flat on it's
face. Based on Jensen Harris' description of how the usability data was
collected (see his blog), I believe there were significant gaps in that data.
In particular, I don't believe experienced users were well represented at all.

As for changes paying off in the long run, that's true only if the new UI
makes the user more productive. Jensen himself listed several points on which
they based the design, before Office 2007 was released. From my perspective
(and I am hardly alone in that), none of those points were satisfied by the
new UI. So, you have many experienced users who don't see any merits in
learning the new UI. What MS did get is long time users going back to Office
2003 and/or looking for other alternatives. As and when time permits, I am
looking into transitioning to OpenOffice and/or Zoho for future needs, rather
than shell out the $$$s for something I don't need/want in the first place,
merely because someone at MS thinks it's better for me. BTW, I've been using
Office apps for longer than I care to remember.

-- Gemini

 

[Chris Game]

No. They have an interest in selling their own software and making
it more difficult for users to use non-Microsoft software. The
ribbon hasn't reduced user confusion or errors.

No. No supplier tries to alienate their customers. I think you'll
find that customers loose their way in the long menus rather more
than in the ribbon.
--
Chris Game

"I do not write for such dull elves,
As have not a great deal of ingenuity themselves."
-- Jane Austen

 

[Chris Game]

Chris, I (amongst many other users), don't see the need for the
Ribbon at all. The menus were just fine.

Would you say the same if there were twice as many menu items? After
a while the sheer number of items, which have to be searched one by
one with little visual help, makes the menu system unworkable.

Maybe you'd be happier with Abiword? MS-Word is getting too complex
for its own good.

 

[Harlan Grove]

No. No supplier tries to alienate their customers. I think you'll
find that customers loose their way in the long menus rather more
than in the ribbon.

....

Suppliers of pens, paper, computer hardware maybe. Suppliers in
effective monopoly positions are in rather a different position.

Let's consider the number of nested menus. Call the items in Excel's
menu bar (File, Edit, View, etc.) level 1, and the entries that appear
when you click on any of them level 2, and if any of those have
triangles on the right side that indicate further submenus, the
entries in those submenus would be level 3. So how many level 2 menu
entries have level 3 submenus?

File > Permission, Print Area, Send To

Edit > Fill, Clear

View > Toolbars

Insert > Name, Picture

Format > Row, Column, Sheet

Tools > Speach, Track Changes, Protection, Online Collaboration,
Formula Auditing, Macro

Data > Filter, Group and Outline, Import External Data, List, XML

22 level 3 submenus.


Now consider the ribbon. Call every ribbon tab level 1. Yes, if you
don't autocollapse the ribbon, there'll always be one tab's contents
visible, but if you need a command in a different tab, accessing that
tab is no different than clicking on a level 1 menu entry in the
classic UI. Call everything appearing in a ribbon tab level 2. Some of
the level 2 entries have downward pointing triangles to access what
are effectively submenus. Call the entries in those submenu entries
level 3. There are more level 3 submenus in Excel 2007's ribbon than
there were in Excel 2003's menu. Further, there are a lot of entries
in the ribbon with only a small icon and no text. Maybe some users
would consider the icons obvious, but others wouldn't.

 

[Harlan Grove]

Would you say the same if there were twice as many menu items? After
a while the sheer number of items, which have to be searched one by
one with little visual help, makes the menu system unworkable.

Take a look at Office 2008 for Macs. No ribbon in sight. Other than
VBA, where are the commands provided by Office 2007 in the ribbon with
no counterpart in the Office 2008 menu? Claims that it's just not
possible to provide the functionality without the ribbon are simply
wrong and display a lack of critical thought.

Microsoft did what it did on the platform they control to try to lock
in their customers. They did something different on Apple's platform
because they couldn't get away with the same thing. And maybe, just
maybe, the Apple OS X simply makes abominations like the ribbon
impossible.

 

[Gemini]

Chris, that' pretty much the claim Jensen Harris made. However, when asked
for data, he didn't respond at all. Based on JH's description of the data
collection, it rather looks like experienced users were NOT well represented
in the data sample. It is also very doubtful whether users behind corporate
firewalls were properly represented.

All in all, there's no data to prove that menus were harder to use than the
Ribbon. As a matter of fact, posts from long time users on several boards
indicate quite the opposite.

As far as suppliers not alienating their customers is concerned, you're
largely correct. However, in this case, MS has been quite arrogant. For one,
they did not provide an alternative to the Ribbon. Secondly, despite the tons
of requests they've received, typically from long time users, they've refused
to provide an alternative the Ribbon. I'm not the only long term MS customer
who is now looking into other (non-MS) alternatives.

In business, one provides whatever the customer wants. Failure to do that is
an invitation for the customers to start looking elsewhere. That's happening
with Office apps now.

MS would be VERY SMART to come out with a "classic" UI alternative to the
Ribbon, for those who do not want to mess with it. That'll clearly signal
that MS is indeed listening to the customer's voice.

--Gemini