How do I split a microsoft project task that takes x hours over .

[Levi Page]

I have tasks such as Project Planning that will 6 hours, but the six hours
will occur over a two month period. I want my duration to reflect how long it
will take me to do all tasks, but since I am specifying two months as a
duration, it thinks i am actually performing two months worth of work instead
of six hours worth. How do I specify that a task will take x amount of hours
over a certain period of time? Currently I have to add an addiational field
called Task Hours, but this will not automatically adjust my start and finish
dates which is what I want. My email address is (e-mail address removed)

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi Levi,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup

From the Gantt Chart view, Window/Split, and in the lower screen change
Fixed Duration to Fixed Work and then OK. Now change the Work to 6h and OK
now re-set the Duration to 2 months. The Units should change to 2%. These
techniques are explained for multiple resources (but obviously apply to a
single resource) in my series on Microsoft Project in the TechTrax ezine,
particularly #10 - Multiple Resource Assignments, at this site:
http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc (Perhaps you'd care to rate it before leaving the
site, Thanks.)

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at
this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

 

[Levi Page]

Thanks so much. I will give that a try. How do I rate you? This is the first
I have used the Microsoft Online Discussion Groups and I don't see anywhere
to specify a rating?

Thanks,
Levi

 

[Mike Glen]

Sorry, Levi, that referred to the TechTrax article - at the end.


Mike Glen
Project MVP

 

[MrDRBC]

I posted a question about splitting a task in MS Project yesterday on an MS
discussion page that came up from Help in MS Project.

I then noticed this posting.

I tried the instructions given by Mike Glen to split the task and also went
the web site TechTrax and followed the instructions there including when it
did not work.

When I go to adjust the ending date to 2 months for the 6 hour task it moves
my start date to the last day of the 2 months.

I cannot split this task successfully. It is a 6 hour task that I wanted to
split into 3 separate 2 hour segments.

I am the only resource for this project so I do not have any resources
assigned.

I posted “Split Task†by MrDRBC.

Any ideas?

Bill Perschke

 

[Rod Gill]

What version of Project?

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour segments of
full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task. It is a 6 hour
duration task. The time between segments is "off the books" just as if the
task took a vacation and as far as duration is concerned it's like a
weekend, it doesn't exist.

Try it. Create a 2 week task. Using the "split task" tool on the toolbar,
click in the middle of the task and drag the second week out for two weeks
into the future. You should see a bar for the first week, a dotted line for
two weeks, and a bar for the last week. Now look at the duration field.
It'll still say "2 weeks," not 4.

 

[AndyB]

Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which I mean that
the split task increases the duration thus making the % complete of say 50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a template some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me how to change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

 

[John]

Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which I mean that
the split task increases the duration thus making the % complete of say 50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a template some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me how to change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

AndyB,
I don't see why using a template would matter but let's clarify
something. Are you talking about a performance task or a Summary line? A
performance task is a task that is described by an action verb and
normally has resources assigned. As Steve noted, the Duration of a split
task will not increase when a split is introduced (regardless of whether
it has progress) but the Duration of a Summary line will increase in
response to one or more of its subtasks (performance tasks) taking on a
split.

John
Project MVP

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A split will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

 

[AndyB]

Hi Steve and John,

It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks (not
summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the duration
increases to encapsulate the over time including the split portion of the
task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it calculates
based on the overall duration including the split. Given that this duration
is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the split and not
clearly reference in the gantts prgress.

I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It would appear to
be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to MSP 2003
but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most recently
MSP2000.

Thanks for your responses,

Andy.

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A split will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which I mean that
the split task increases the duration thus making the % complete of say
50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a template
some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me how to change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

 

[AndyB]

Hi again guys,

I think I've cracked it. Task info set to 'fixed duration'. This seems to
be the cause, when I changed to 'fixed units' for the active tasks the
problem seemed to go away.

Thanks for you respnses, as always you guys are very helpful.

Andy.

Hi Steve and John,

It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks (not
summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the duration
increases to encapsulate the over time including the split portion of the
task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it calculates
based on the overall duration including the split. Given that this duration
is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the split and not
clearly reference in the gantts prgress.

I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It would appear to
be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to MSP 2003
but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most recently
MSP2000.

Thanks for your responses,

Andy.

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A split will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which I mean that
the split task increases the duration thus making the % complete of say
50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a template
some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me how to change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

:

A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour segments of
full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task. It is a 6
hour
duration task. The time between segments is "off the books" just as if
the
task took a vacation and as far as duration is concerned it's like a
weekend, it doesn't exist.

Try it. Create a 2 week task. Using the "split task" tool on the
toolbar,
click in the middle of the task and drag the second week out for two
weeks
into the future. You should see a bar for the first week, a dotted line
for
two weeks, and a bar for the last week. Now look at the duration field.
It'll still say "2 weeks," not 4.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



I posted a question about splitting a task in MS Project yesterday on an
MS
discussion page that came up from Help in MS Project.

I then noticed this posting.

I tried the instructions given by Mike Glen to split the task and also
went
the web site TechTrax and followed the instructions there including
when
it
did not work.

When I go to adjust the ending date to 2 months for the 6 hour task it
moves
my start date to the last day of the 2 months.

I cannot split this task successfully. It is a 6 hour task that I
wanted
to
split into 3 separate 2 hour segments.

I am the only resource for this project so I do not have any resources
assigned.

I posted â?oSplit Taskâ? by MrDRBC.

Any ideas?

Bill Perschke


:

Sorry, Levi, that referred to the TechTrax article - at the end.


Mike Glen
Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
Thanks so much. I will give that a try. How do I rate you? This is
the first I have used the Microsoft Online Discussion Groups and I
don't see anywhere to specify a rating?

Thanks,
Levi


:

Hi Levi,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup

From the Gantt Chart view, Window/Split, and in the lower screen
change Fixed Duration to Fixed Work and then OK. Now change the
Work to 6h and OK now re-set the Duration to 2 months. The Units
should change to 2%. These techniques are explained for multiple
resources (but obviously apply to a single resource) in my series
on
Microsoft Project in the TechTrax ezine, particularly #10 -
Multiple
Resource Assignments, at this site: http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc
(Perhaps you'd care to rate it before leaving the site,
Thanks.)

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can
be
seen at this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
I have tasks such as Project Planning that will 6 hours, but the
six
hours will occur over a two month period. I want my duration to
reflect how long it will take me to do all tasks, but since I am
specifying two months as a duration, it thinks i am actually
performing two months worth of work instead of six hours worth.
How
do I specify that a task will take x amount of hours over a
certain
period of time? Currently I have to add an addiational field
called
Task Hours, but this will not automatically adjust my start and
finish dates which is what I want. My email address is
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

That's funny, it doesn't do it on mine. I take a two week task and split
it, introducing 1 week of down time in the middle. Now the total elapsed
time on the task is three weeks but the duration column still reads "2 wks"
because the downtime in the middle doesn't count for duration. I mark it
50% complete and the dark line runs through the first half. I mark it 60%
complete and the dark line runs just into the second half a skoshe and shows
actual duration 6 days, remaining duration 4 days. Take us step by step
exactly how you can recreate the problem if you can - I'm really curiuous.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hi Steve and John,

It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks (not
summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the duration
increases to encapsulate the over time including the split portion of the
task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it
calculates
based on the overall duration including the split. Given that this
duration
is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the split and
not
clearly reference in the gantts prgress.

I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It would appear
to
be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to MSP 2003
but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most recently
MSP2000.

Thanks for your responses,

Andy.

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A split
will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which I mean
that
the split task increases the duration thus making the % complete of say
50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a template
some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me how to
change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

:

A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour segments of
full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task. It is a
6
hour
duration task. The time between segments is "off the books" just as
if
the
task took a vacation and as far as duration is concerned it's like a
weekend, it doesn't exist.

Try it. Create a 2 week task. Using the "split task" tool on the
toolbar,
click in the middle of the task and drag the second week out for two
weeks
into the future. You should see a bar for the first week, a dotted
line
for
two weeks, and a bar for the last week. Now look at the duration
field.
It'll still say "2 weeks," not 4.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



I posted a question about splitting a task in MS Project yesterday on
an
MS
discussion page that came up from Help in MS Project.

I then noticed this posting.

I tried the instructions given by Mike Glen to split the task and
also
went
the web site TechTrax and followed the instructions there including
when
it
did not work.

When I go to adjust the ending date to 2 months for the 6 hour task
it
moves
my start date to the last day of the 2 months.

I cannot split this task successfully. It is a 6 hour task that I
wanted
to
split into 3 separate 2 hour segments.

I am the only resource for this project so I do not have any
resources
assigned.

I posted Ãf¢?oSplit TaskÃf¢?Ã, by MrDRBC.

Any ideas?

Bill Perschke


:

Sorry, Levi, that referred to the TechTrax article - at the end.


Mike Glen
Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
Thanks so much. I will give that a try. How do I rate you? This
is
the first I have used the Microsoft Online Discussion Groups and
I
don't see anywhere to specify a rating?

Thanks,
Levi


:

Hi Levi,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup

From the Gantt Chart view, Window/Split, and in the lower screen
change Fixed Duration to Fixed Work and then OK. Now change the
Work to 6h and OK now re-set the Duration to 2 months. The
Units
should change to 2%. These techniques are explained for
multiple
resources (but obviously apply to a single resource) in my
series
on
Microsoft Project in the TechTrax ezine, particularly #10 -
Multiple
Resource Assignments, at this site: http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc
(Perhaps you'd care to rate it before leaving the site,
Thanks.)

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information
can
be
seen at this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
I have tasks such as Project Planning that will 6 hours, but
the
six
hours will occur over a two month period. I want my duration to
reflect how long it will take me to do all tasks, but since I
am
specifying two months as a duration, it thinks i am actually
performing two months worth of work instead of six hours worth.
How
do I specify that a task will take x amount of hours over a
certain
period of time? Currently I have to add an addiational field
called
Task Hours, but this will not automatically adjust my start and
finish dates which is what I want. My email address is
(e-mail address removed)

 

[AndyB]

Well step by step, try the following:

Insert a task...
Right click to enter 'task info'...
on 'Advanced' tab set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Duration'...
Now introduce a split by right clicking the task bar in the Gantt, but keep
an eye on the duration. You will notice the duration increases to include
the split/non-work duration also.

Now repeat but set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Units' et voila, the split is
introduced but the duration remains the same. Presumably as it now includes
work effort as the measurable, as it should be (or at least how I wanted it).

It's a strange one for sure, I never encountered it before.
I hope this helps.

Andy.

That's funny, it doesn't do it on mine. I take a two week task and split
it, introducing 1 week of down time in the middle. Now the total elapsed
time on the task is three weeks but the duration column still reads "2 wks"
because the downtime in the middle doesn't count for duration. I mark it
50% complete and the dark line runs through the first half. I mark it 60%
complete and the dark line runs just into the second half a skoshe and shows
actual duration 6 days, remaining duration 4 days. Take us step by step
exactly how you can recreate the problem if you can - I'm really curiuous.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hi Steve and John,

It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks (not
summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the duration
increases to encapsulate the over time including the split portion of the
task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it
calculates
based on the overall duration including the split. Given that this
duration
is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the split and
not
clearly reference in the gantts prgress.

I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It would appear
to
be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to MSP 2003
but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most recently
MSP2000.

Thanks for your responses,

Andy.

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A split
will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which I mean
that
the split task increases the duration thus making the % complete of say
50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a template
some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me how to
change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

:

A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour segments of
full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task. It is a
6
hour
duration task. The time between segments is "off the books" just as
if
the
task took a vacation and as far as duration is concerned it's like a
weekend, it doesn't exist.

Try it. Create a 2 week task. Using the "split task" tool on the
toolbar,
click in the middle of the task and drag the second week out for two
weeks
into the future. You should see a bar for the first week, a dotted
line
for
two weeks, and a bar for the last week. Now look at the duration
field.
It'll still say "2 weeks," not 4.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



I posted a question about splitting a task in MS Project yesterday on
an
MS
discussion page that came up from Help in MS Project.

I then noticed this posting.

I tried the instructions given by Mike Glen to split the task and
also
went
the web site TechTrax and followed the instructions there including
when
it
did not work.

When I go to adjust the ending date to 2 months for the 6 hour task
it
moves
my start date to the last day of the 2 months.

I cannot split this task successfully. It is a 6 hour task that I
wanted
to
split into 3 separate 2 hour segments.

I am the only resource for this project so I do not have any
resources
assigned.

I posted Ãf¢?oSplit TaskÃf¢?Ã, by MrDRBC.

Any ideas?

Bill Perschke


:

Sorry, Levi, that referred to the TechTrax article - at the end.


Mike Glen
Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
Thanks so much. I will give that a try. How do I rate you? This
is
the first I have used the Microsoft Online Discussion Groups and
I
don't see anywhere to specify a rating?

Thanks,
Levi


:

Hi Levi,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup

From the Gantt Chart view, Window/Split, and in the lower screen
change Fixed Duration to Fixed Work and then OK. Now change the
Work to 6h and OK now re-set the Duration to 2 months. The
Units
should change to 2%. These techniques are explained for
multiple
resources (but obviously apply to a single resource) in my
series
on
Microsoft Project in the TechTrax ezine, particularly #10 -
Multiple
Resource Assignments, at this site: http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc
(Perhaps you'd care to rate it before leaving the site,
Thanks.)

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information
can
be
seen at this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
I have tasks such as Project Planning that will 6 hours, but
the
six
hours will occur over a two month period. I want my duration to
reflect how long it will take me to do all tasks, but since I
am
specifying two months as a duration, it thinks i am actually
performing two months worth of work instead of six hours worth.
How
do I specify that a task will take x amount of hours over a
certain
period of time? Currently I have to add an addiational field
called
Task Hours, but this will not automatically adjust my start and
finish dates which is what I want. My email address is
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

Well I'll be .... you're right. Hadn't discovered that behavior before and
frankly I don't quite know what to make of it.


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Well step by step, try the following:

Insert a task...
Right click to enter 'task info'...
on 'Advanced' tab set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Duration'...
Now introduce a split by right clicking the task bar in the Gantt, but
keep
an eye on the duration. You will notice the duration increases to include
the split/non-work duration also.

Now repeat but set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Units' et voila, the split is
introduced but the duration remains the same. Presumably as it now
includes
work effort as the measurable, as it should be (or at least how I wanted
it).

It's a strange one for sure, I never encountered it before.
I hope this helps.

Andy.

That's funny, it doesn't do it on mine. I take a two week task and split
it, introducing 1 week of down time in the middle. Now the total elapsed
time on the task is three weeks but the duration column still reads "2
wks"
because the downtime in the middle doesn't count for duration. I mark it
50% complete and the dark line runs through the first half. I mark it
60%
complete and the dark line runs just into the second half a skoshe and
shows
actual duration 6 days, remaining duration 4 days. Take us step by step
exactly how you can recreate the problem if you can - I'm really
curiuous.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Hi Steve and John,

It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks (not
summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the
duration
increases to encapsulate the over time including the split portion of
the
task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it
calculates
based on the overall duration including the split. Given that this
duration
is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the split
and
not
clearly reference in the gantts prgress.

I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It would
appear
to
be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to MSP
2003
but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most
recently
MSP2000.

Thanks for your responses,

Andy.

:

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A split
will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the
duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which I
mean
that
the split task increases the duration thus making the % complete of
say
50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a
template
some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me how to
change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a
split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

:

A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour segments
of
full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task. It is
a
6
hour
duration task. The time between segments is "off the books" just
as
if
the
task took a vacation and as far as duration is concerned it's like
a
weekend, it doesn't exist.

Try it. Create a 2 week task. Using the "split task" tool on the
toolbar,
click in the middle of the task and drag the second week out for
two
weeks
into the future. You should see a bar for the first week, a dotted
line
for
two weeks, and a bar for the last week. Now look at the duration
field.
It'll still say "2 weeks," not 4.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



I posted a question about splitting a task in MS Project yesterday
on
an
MS
discussion page that came up from Help in MS Project.

I then noticed this posting.

I tried the instructions given by Mike Glen to split the task and
also
went
the web site TechTrax and followed the instructions there
including
when
it
did not work.

When I go to adjust the ending date to 2 months for the 6 hour
task
it
moves
my start date to the last day of the 2 months.

I cannot split this task successfully. It is a 6 hour task that I
wanted
to
split into 3 separate 2 hour segments.

I am the only resource for this project so I do not have any
resources
assigned.

I posted ÃffÃ,¢?oSplit TaskÃffÃ,¢?Ãf,Ã, by MrDRBC.

Any ideas?

Bill Perschke


:

Sorry, Levi, that referred to the TechTrax article - at the end.


Mike Glen
Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
Thanks so much. I will give that a try. How do I rate you?
This
is
the first I have used the Microsoft Online Discussion Groups
and
I
don't see anywhere to specify a rating?

Thanks,
Levi


:

Hi Levi,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup

From the Gantt Chart view, Window/Split, and in the lower
screen
change Fixed Duration to Fixed Work and then OK. Now change
the
Work to 6h and OK now re-set the Duration to 2 months. The
Units
should change to 2%. These techniques are explained for
multiple
resources (but obviously apply to a single resource) in my
series
on
Microsoft Project in the TechTrax ezine, particularly #10 -
Multiple
Resource Assignments, at this site: http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc
(Perhaps you'd care to rate it before leaving the site,
Thanks.)

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information
can
be
seen at this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
I have tasks such as Project Planning that will 6 hours, but
the
six
hours will occur over a two month period. I want my duration
to
reflect how long it will take me to do all tasks, but since
I
am
specifying two months as a duration, it thinks i am actually
performing two months worth of work instead of six hours
worth.
How
do I specify that a task will take x amount of hours over a
certain
period of time? Currently I have to add an addiational field
called
Task Hours, but this will not automatically adjust my start
and
finish dates which is what I want. My email address is
(e-mail address removed)

 

[AndyB]

This has now thrown up another interesting development.

With the Task Type set to Fixed Units if I adjust the %effort on the
assigned resource it increases the duration to reflect this new percentage
automatically. This doesn't happen if Task Type is set to Fixed Duration but
of course this has the other problem that we discussed with splitting the
task. Do you think there is a setting to avoid this. Effort Driven is
unchecked btw.

This isn't as serious as the last issue as you can simply adjust the
duration back to what it was originally but it would be nice to set it up
properly so giving less to worry about in adapting processes to circumvent
it. Bearing in mind I need the templates to be fairly idiot proof.

Thanks,

Andy.

Well I'll be .... you're right. Hadn't discovered that behavior before and
frankly I don't quite know what to make of it.


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Well step by step, try the following:

Insert a task...
Right click to enter 'task info'...
on 'Advanced' tab set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Duration'...
Now introduce a split by right clicking the task bar in the Gantt, but
keep
an eye on the duration. You will notice the duration increases to include
the split/non-work duration also.

Now repeat but set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Units' et voila, the split is
introduced but the duration remains the same. Presumably as it now
includes
work effort as the measurable, as it should be (or at least how I wanted
it).

It's a strange one for sure, I never encountered it before.
I hope this helps.

Andy.

That's funny, it doesn't do it on mine. I take a two week task and split
it, introducing 1 week of down time in the middle. Now the total elapsed
time on the task is three weeks but the duration column still reads "2
wks"
because the downtime in the middle doesn't count for duration. I mark it
50% complete and the dark line runs through the first half. I mark it
60%
complete and the dark line runs just into the second half a skoshe and
shows
actual duration 6 days, remaining duration 4 days. Take us step by step
exactly how you can recreate the problem if you can - I'm really
curiuous.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Hi Steve and John,

It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks (not
summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the
duration
increases to encapsulate the over time including the split portion of
the
task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it
calculates
based on the overall duration including the split. Given that this
duration
is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the split
and
not
clearly reference in the gantts prgress.

I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It would
appear
to
be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to MSP
2003
but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most
recently
MSP2000.

Thanks for your responses,

Andy.

:

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A split
will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the
duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which I
mean
that
the split task increases the duration thus making the % complete of
say
50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a
template
some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me how to
change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a
split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

:

A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour segments
of
full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task. It is
a
6
hour
duration task. The time between segments is "off the books" just
as
if
the
task took a vacation and as far as duration is concerned it's like
a
weekend, it doesn't exist.

Try it. Create a 2 week task. Using the "split task" tool on the
toolbar,
click in the middle of the task and drag the second week out for
two
weeks
into the future. You should see a bar for the first week, a dotted
line
for
two weeks, and a bar for the last week. Now look at the duration
field.
It'll still say "2 weeks," not 4.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



I posted a question about splitting a task in MS Project yesterday
on
an
MS
discussion page that came up from Help in MS Project.

I then noticed this posting.

I tried the instructions given by Mike Glen to split the task and
also
went
the web site TechTrax and followed the instructions there
including
when
it
did not work.

When I go to adjust the ending date to 2 months for the 6 hour
task
it
moves
my start date to the last day of the 2 months.

I cannot split this task successfully. It is a 6 hour task that I
wanted
to
split into 3 separate 2 hour segments.

I am the only resource for this project so I do not have any
resources
assigned.

I posted ÃffÃ,¢?oSplit TaskÃffÃ,¢?Ãf,Ã, by MrDRBC.

Any ideas?

Bill Perschke


:

Sorry, Levi, that referred to the TechTrax article - at the end.


Mike Glen
Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
Thanks so much. I will give that a try. How do I rate you?
This
is
the first I have used the Microsoft Online Discussion Groups
and
I
don't see anywhere to specify a rating?

Thanks,
Levi


:

Hi Levi,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup

From the Gantt Chart view, Window/Split, and in the lower
screen
change Fixed Duration to Fixed Work and then OK. Now change
the
Work to 6h and OK now re-set the Duration to 2 months. The
Units
should change to 2%. These techniques are explained for
multiple
resources (but obviously apply to a single resource) in my
series
on
Microsoft Project in the TechTrax ezine, particularly #10 -
Multiple
Resource Assignments, at this site: http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc
(Perhaps you'd care to rate it before leaving the site,
Thanks.)

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information
can
be
seen at this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
I have tasks such as Project Planning that will 6 hours, but
the
six
hours will occur over a two month period. I want my duration
to
reflect how long it will take me to do all tasks, but since
I
am
specifying two months as a duration, it thinks i am actually
performing two months worth of work instead of six hours
worth.
How
do I specify that a task will take x amount of hours over a
certain
period of time? Currently I have to add an addiational field
called
Task Hours, but this will not automatically adjust my start
and
finish dates which is what I want. My email address is
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

Because the equation W=D*U must ALWAYS stay in balance, if the task type is
Fixed Units and you change the units anyway, Project has to decide whether
it's the Work or Duration that must also be adjusted. Since it's more
common for the work to be constant in the real world (it takes the same
amount of work to paint 100 square feet of wall regardless of how fast or
slowly the painters work on it) the default behaviour in the scenario you
pose is to treat the task as if it were Fixed Work and change the duration.
This doesn't have anything to do with effort driven or not - the settings of
effort driven versus non-effort driven only come into play when you add
bodies to or take them away from the task - when editing the resources that
are there without changing the actual number of resources assigned the
effort driven setting are ignored.

Idiot proof templates in project management are an impossible dream. The
function of Project is to help decision makers predict the outcomes of their
decisions. It is not a clerical tool and cannot be used passively - and
passive use where you just plug in the numbers for the template to massage
while the template designer has done all the brain-work is what templates
are all about. Because it is such a powerful tool, the only way to idiot
proof it is to make sure that idiots aren't expected or allowed to use it.
And that means the people who will be using it need to be properly trained,
not only in how to "work the software" but also how it fits in the overall
managment strategies of your organization. I'm a very strong believer that
skills in Project cannot be learned by rote memory of procedures in "how to
use the tool." Giving someone MS Project who does not have some
understanding of PM principles, some of the WHY Project works the way it
does, and how project managment methodology should be applied to meeting the
objectives of the firm is tantamount to giving a child a loaded gun to play
with.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

This has now thrown up another interesting development.

With the Task Type set to Fixed Units if I adjust the %effort on the
assigned resource it increases the duration to reflect this new percentage
automatically. This doesn't happen if Task Type is set to Fixed Duration
but
of course this has the other problem that we discussed with splitting the
task. Do you think there is a setting to avoid this. Effort Driven is
unchecked btw.

This isn't as serious as the last issue as you can simply adjust the
duration back to what it was originally but it would be nice to set it up
properly so giving less to worry about in adapting processes to circumvent
it. Bearing in mind I need the templates to be fairly idiot proof.

Thanks,

Andy.

Well I'll be .... you're right. Hadn't discovered that behavior before
and
frankly I don't quite know what to make of it.


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Well step by step, try the following:

Insert a task...
Right click to enter 'task info'...
on 'Advanced' tab set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Duration'...
Now introduce a split by right clicking the task bar in the Gantt, but
keep
an eye on the duration. You will notice the duration increases to
include
the split/non-work duration also.

Now repeat but set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Units' et voila, the split is
introduced but the duration remains the same. Presumably as it now
includes
work effort as the measurable, as it should be (or at least how I
wanted
it).

It's a strange one for sure, I never encountered it before.
I hope this helps.

Andy.

:

That's funny, it doesn't do it on mine. I take a two week task and
split
it, introducing 1 week of down time in the middle. Now the total
elapsed
time on the task is three weeks but the duration column still reads "2
wks"
because the downtime in the middle doesn't count for duration. I mark
it
50% complete and the dark line runs through the first half. I mark it
60%
complete and the dark line runs just into the second half a skoshe and
shows
actual duration 6 days, remaining duration 4 days. Take us step by
step
exactly how you can recreate the problem if you can - I'm really
curiuous.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Hi Steve and John,

It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks (not
summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the
duration
increases to encapsulate the over time including the split portion
of
the
task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it
calculates
based on the overall duration including the split. Given that this
duration
is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the
split
and
not
clearly reference in the gantts prgress.

I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It would
appear
to
be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to
MSP
2003
but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most
recently
MSP2000.

Thanks for your responses,

Andy.

:

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A
split
will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the
duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which I
mean
that
the split task increases the duration thus making the % complete
of
say
50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a
template
some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me how
to
change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a
split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

:

A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour
segments
of
full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task. It
is
a
6
hour
duration task. The time between segments is "off the books"
just
as
if
the
task took a vacation and as far as duration is concerned it's
like
a
weekend, it doesn't exist.

Try it. Create a 2 week task. Using the "split task" tool on
the
toolbar,
click in the middle of the task and drag the second week out for
two
weeks
into the future. You should see a bar for the first week, a
dotted
line
for
two weeks, and a bar for the last week. Now look at the
duration
field.
It'll still say "2 weeks," not 4.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



I posted a question about splitting a task in MS Project
yesterday
on
an
MS
discussion page that came up from Help in MS Project.

I then noticed this posting.

I tried the instructions given by Mike Glen to split the task
and
also
went
the web site TechTrax and followed the instructions there
including
when
it
did not work.

When I go to adjust the ending date to 2 months for the 6 hour
task
it
moves
my start date to the last day of the 2 months.

I cannot split this task successfully. It is a 6 hour task
that I
wanted
to
split into 3 separate 2 hour segments.

I am the only resource for this project so I do not have any
resources
assigned.

I posted ÃfffÃf,Ã,¢?oSplit TaskÃfffÃf,Ã,¢?Ãff,Ãf,Ã, by
MrDRBC.

Any ideas?

Bill Perschke


:

Sorry, Levi, that referred to the TechTrax article - at the
end.


Mike Glen
Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
Thanks so much. I will give that a try. How do I rate you?
This
is
the first I have used the Microsoft Online Discussion
Groups
and
I
don't see anywhere to specify a rating?

Thanks,
Levi


:

Hi Levi,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup

From the Gantt Chart view, Window/Split, and in the lower
screen
change Fixed Duration to Fixed Work and then OK. Now
change
the
Work to 6h and OK now re-set the Duration to 2 months.
The
Units
should change to 2%. These techniques are explained for
multiple
resources (but obviously apply to a single resource) in my
series
on
Microsoft Project in the TechTrax ezine, particularly
#10 -
Multiple
Resource Assignments, at this site:
http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc
(Perhaps you'd care to rate it before leaving the site,
Thanks.)

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project
information
can
be
seen at this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
I have tasks such as Project Planning that will 6 hours,
but
the
six
hours will occur over a two month period. I want my
duration
to
reflect how long it will take me to do all tasks, but
since
I
am
specifying two months as a duration, it thinks i am
actually
performing two months worth of work instead of six hours
worth.
How
do I specify that a task will take x amount of hours over
a
certain
period of time? Currently I have to add an addiational
field
called
Task Hours, but this will not automatically adjust my
start
and
finish dates which is what I want. My email address is
(e-mail address removed)

 

[AndyB]

Thanks Steve,

I fully understand what you are saying and appreciate the detailed reply.
My comments on idiot-proofing the templates were a little sarcastic I
suppose, i.e. 'ever met a PM who wasn't an idiot when it comes to MSP?' type
of thing [j/k].

The templates are generally in good shape but understanding a problem is the
first step to avoiding it. Here, all the PMs have a review with me once a
fortnight where I can maintain the structure for senior reporting and manage
any iregularities with the resource pool so I do have a degree of control.
But I am one planning analyst amoung 76 PMs so making the templates work as
well as I can should pay dividends later on as well as ongoing training and
increased project control which I am working on.

Thanks again,

Andy

Because the equation W=D*U must ALWAYS stay in balance, if the task type is
Fixed Units and you change the units anyway, Project has to decide whether
it's the Work or Duration that must also be adjusted. Since it's more
common for the work to be constant in the real world (it takes the same
amount of work to paint 100 square feet of wall regardless of how fast or
slowly the painters work on it) the default behaviour in the scenario you
pose is to treat the task as if it were Fixed Work and change the duration.
This doesn't have anything to do with effort driven or not - the settings of
effort driven versus non-effort driven only come into play when you add
bodies to or take them away from the task - when editing the resources that
are there without changing the actual number of resources assigned the
effort driven setting are ignored.

Idiot proof templates in project management are an impossible dream. The
function of Project is to help decision makers predict the outcomes of their
decisions. It is not a clerical tool and cannot be used passively - and
passive use where you just plug in the numbers for the template to massage
while the template designer has done all the brain-work is what templates
are all about. Because it is such a powerful tool, the only way to idiot
proof it is to make sure that idiots aren't expected or allowed to use it.
And that means the people who will be using it need to be properly trained,
not only in how to "work the software" but also how it fits in the overall
managment strategies of your organization. I'm a very strong believer that
skills in Project cannot be learned by rote memory of procedures in "how to
use the tool." Giving someone MS Project who does not have some
understanding of PM principles, some of the WHY Project works the way it
does, and how project managment methodology should be applied to meeting the
objectives of the firm is tantamount to giving a child a loaded gun to play
with.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

This has now thrown up another interesting development.

With the Task Type set to Fixed Units if I adjust the %effort on the
assigned resource it increases the duration to reflect this new percentage
automatically. This doesn't happen if Task Type is set to Fixed Duration
but
of course this has the other problem that we discussed with splitting the
task. Do you think there is a setting to avoid this. Effort Driven is
unchecked btw.

This isn't as serious as the last issue as you can simply adjust the
duration back to what it was originally but it would be nice to set it up
properly so giving less to worry about in adapting processes to circumvent
it. Bearing in mind I need the templates to be fairly idiot proof.

Thanks,

Andy.

Well I'll be .... you're right. Hadn't discovered that behavior before
and
frankly I don't quite know what to make of it.


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Well step by step, try the following:

Insert a task...
Right click to enter 'task info'...
on 'Advanced' tab set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Duration'...
Now introduce a split by right clicking the task bar in the Gantt, but
keep
an eye on the duration. You will notice the duration increases to
include
the split/non-work duration also.

Now repeat but set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Units' et voila, the split is
introduced but the duration remains the same. Presumably as it now
includes
work effort as the measurable, as it should be (or at least how I
wanted
it).

It's a strange one for sure, I never encountered it before.
I hope this helps.

Andy.

:

That's funny, it doesn't do it on mine. I take a two week task and
split
it, introducing 1 week of down time in the middle. Now the total
elapsed
time on the task is three weeks but the duration column still reads "2
wks"
because the downtime in the middle doesn't count for duration. I mark
it
50% complete and the dark line runs through the first half. I mark it
60%
complete and the dark line runs just into the second half a skoshe and
shows
actual duration 6 days, remaining duration 4 days. Take us step by
step
exactly how you can recreate the problem if you can - I'm really
curiuous.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Hi Steve and John,

It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks (not
summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the
duration
increases to encapsulate the over time including the split portion
of
the
task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it
calculates
based on the overall duration including the split. Given that this
duration
is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the
split
and
not
clearly reference in the gantts prgress.

I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It would
appear
to
be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to
MSP
2003
but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most
recently
MSP2000.

Thanks for your responses,

Andy.

:

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A
split
will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the
duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which I
mean
that
the split task increases the duration thus making the % complete
of
say
50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a
template
some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me how
to
change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a
split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

:

A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour
segments
of
full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task. It
is
a
6
hour
duration task. The time between segments is "off the books"
just
as
if
the
task took a vacation and as far as duration is concerned it's
like
a
weekend, it doesn't exist.

Try it. Create a 2 week task. Using the "split task" tool on
the
toolbar,
click in the middle of the task and drag the second week out for
two
weeks
into the future. You should see a bar for the first week, a
dotted
line
for
two weeks, and a bar for the last week. Now look at the
duration
field.
It'll still say "2 weeks," not 4.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



I posted a question about splitting a task in MS Project
yesterday
on
an
MS
discussion page that came up from Help in MS Project.

I then noticed this posting.

I tried the instructions given by Mike Glen to split the task
and
also
went
the web site TechTrax and followed the instructions there
including
when
it
did not work.

When I go to adjust the ending date to 2 months for the 6 hour
task
it
moves
my start date to the last day of the 2 months.

I cannot split this task successfully. It is a 6 hour task
that I
wanted
to
split into 3 separate 2 hour segments.

I am the only resource for this project so I do not have any
resources
assigned.

I posted ÃfffÃf,Ã,¢?oSplit TaskÃfffÃf,Ã,¢?Ãff,Ãf,Ã, by
MrDRBC.

Any ideas?

Bill Perschke


:

Sorry, Levi, that referred to the TechTrax article - at the
end.


Mike Glen
Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
Thanks so much. I will give that a try. How do I rate you?
This
is
the first I have used the Microsoft Online Discussion
Groups
and
I
don't see anywhere to specify a rating?

Thanks,
Levi

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

Just for my own edification as in my classes the discussion often arises of
what are the PM's responsibilities, I'm curious about the roll people
designated as "Project Managers" play in your organization and how they're
going to be using the templates you're building. Are they people with real
design and planning functions with decision making and management control
authority, inrteracting with senior managment in deciding on the budgets,
analysing work requirements and deciding what work is required and what is
not, coordinating with the subject matter experts actually design the
project workflow, hiring and firing resources, carrying signature authority
on project-related expenses, that sort of thing, or is their role more
administrative with the analysts in the role of deciding what or if things
need to be done, that sort of thing? I tend to think of the project manager
as the person interacting with senior managemnt deciding whether the project
is feasible and if it fits into the organization's overall objectives, and
if so, the PM is then the one responsible for designing and creating the
project from the ground up, deciding what needs to be done in what manner
and who is to do it in order to meet the firms strategic goals. Since by
definition projects are unique endeavors with every one being different from
every other one to a greater or lesser extent, it seems that it would be
really difficult to come up with workable detailed templates - generic
templates outlining the broad phases and common tasks perhaps, but when you
get to the level of estimated task durations etc I just don't see how it
would be possible to make up a reusable template that actually means
anything.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Thanks Steve,

I fully understand what you are saying and appreciate the detailed reply.
My comments on idiot-proofing the templates were a little sarcastic I
suppose, i.e. 'ever met a PM who wasn't an idiot when it comes to MSP?'
type
of thing [j/k].

The templates are generally in good shape but understanding a problem is
the
first step to avoiding it. Here, all the PMs have a review with me once a
fortnight where I can maintain the structure for senior reporting and
manage
any iregularities with the resource pool so I do have a degree of control.
But I am one planning analyst amoung 76 PMs so making the templates work
as
well as I can should pay dividends later on as well as ongoing training
and
increased project control which I am working on.

Thanks again,

Andy

Because the equation W=D*U must ALWAYS stay in balance, if the task type
is
Fixed Units and you change the units anyway, Project has to decide
whether
it's the Work or Duration that must also be adjusted. Since it's more
common for the work to be constant in the real world (it takes the same
amount of work to paint 100 square feet of wall regardless of how fast or
slowly the painters work on it) the default behaviour in the scenario you
pose is to treat the task as if it were Fixed Work and change the
duration.
This doesn't have anything to do with effort driven or not - the settings
of
effort driven versus non-effort driven only come into play when you add
bodies to or take them away from the task - when editing the resources
that
are there without changing the actual number of resources assigned the
effort driven setting are ignored.

Idiot proof templates in project management are an impossible dream. The
function of Project is to help decision makers predict the outcomes of
their
decisions. It is not a clerical tool and cannot be used passively - and
passive use where you just plug in the numbers for the template to
massage
while the template designer has done all the brain-work is what templates
are all about. Because it is such a powerful tool, the only way to idiot
proof it is to make sure that idiots aren't expected or allowed to use
it.
And that means the people who will be using it need to be properly
trained,
not only in how to "work the software" but also how it fits in the
overall
managment strategies of your organization. I'm a very strong believer
that
skills in Project cannot be learned by rote memory of procedures in "how
to
use the tool." Giving someone MS Project who does not have some
understanding of PM principles, some of the WHY Project works the way it
does, and how project managment methodology should be applied to meeting
the
objectives of the firm is tantamount to giving a child a loaded gun to
play
with.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

This has now thrown up another interesting development.

With the Task Type set to Fixed Units if I adjust the %effort on the
assigned resource it increases the duration to reflect this new
percentage
automatically. This doesn't happen if Task Type is set to Fixed
Duration
but
of course this has the other problem that we discussed with splitting
the
task. Do you think there is a setting to avoid this. Effort Driven is
unchecked btw.

This isn't as serious as the last issue as you can simply adjust the
duration back to what it was originally but it would be nice to set it
up
properly so giving less to worry about in adapting processes to
circumvent
it. Bearing in mind I need the templates to be fairly idiot proof.

Thanks,

Andy.

:

Well I'll be .... you're right. Hadn't discovered that behavior
before
and
frankly I don't quite know what to make of it.


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Well step by step, try the following:

Insert a task...
Right click to enter 'task info'...
on 'Advanced' tab set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Duration'...
Now introduce a split by right clicking the task bar in the Gantt,
but
keep
an eye on the duration. You will notice the duration increases to
include
the split/non-work duration also.

Now repeat but set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Units' et voila, the split
is
introduced but the duration remains the same. Presumably as it now
includes
work effort as the measurable, as it should be (or at least how I
wanted
it).

It's a strange one for sure, I never encountered it before.
I hope this helps.

Andy.

:

That's funny, it doesn't do it on mine. I take a two week task and
split
it, introducing 1 week of down time in the middle. Now the total
elapsed
time on the task is three weeks but the duration column still reads
"2
wks"
because the downtime in the middle doesn't count for duration. I
mark
it
50% complete and the dark line runs through the first half. I mark
it
60%
complete and the dark line runs just into the second half a skoshe
and
shows
actual duration 6 days, remaining duration 4 days. Take us step by
step
exactly how you can recreate the problem if you can - I'm really
curiuous.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Hi Steve and John,

It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks
(not
summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the
duration
increases to encapsulate the over time including the split
portion
of
the
task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it
calculates
based on the overall duration including the split. Given that
this
duration
is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the
split
and
not
clearly reference in the gantts prgress.

I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It
would
appear
to
be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to
MSP
2003
but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most
recently
MSP2000.

Thanks for your responses,

Andy.

:

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A
split
will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the
duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which
I
mean
that
the split task increases the duration thus making the %
complete
of
say
50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a
template
some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me
how
to
change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a
split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

:

A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour
segments
of
full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task.
It
is
a
6
hour
duration task. The time between segments is "off the books"
just
as
if
the
task took a vacation and as far as duration is concerned it's
like
a
weekend, it doesn't exist.

Try it. Create a 2 week task. Using the "split task" tool
on
the
toolbar,
click in the middle of the task and drag the second week out
for
two
weeks
into the future. You should see a bar for the first week, a
dotted
line
for
two weeks, and a bar for the last week. Now look at the
duration
field.
It'll still say "2 weeks," not 4.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



I posted a question about splitting a task in MS Project
yesterday
on
an
MS
discussion page that came up from Help in MS Project.

I then noticed this posting.

I tried the instructions given by Mike Glen to split the
task
and
also
went
the web site TechTrax and followed the instructions there
including
when
it
did not work.

When I go to adjust the ending date to 2 months for the 6
hour
task
it
moves
my start date to the last day of the 2 months.

I cannot split this task successfully. It is a 6 hour task
that I
wanted
to
split into 3 separate 2 hour segments.

I am the only resource for this project so I do not have
any
resources
assigned.

I posted ÃffffÃff,Ãf,Ã,¢?oSplit
TaskÃffffÃff,Ãf,Ã,¢?Ãfff,Ãff,Ãf,Ã, by
MrDRBC.

Any ideas?

Bill Perschke


:

Sorry, Levi, that referred to the TechTrax article - at
the
end.


Mike Glen
Project MVP

Levi Page wrote:
Thanks so much. I will give that a try. How do I rate
you?
This
is
the first I have used the Microsoft Online Discussion
Groups
and
I
don't see anywhere to specify a rating?

Thanks,
Levi

 

[AndyB]

Firstly our industry is telecoms.
The PMs report directly to the program steering team, PST (program managers)
to agree on how to proceed. The PST are really the decision makers and the
PMs are the enablers. They are however responsible and accountable for cost
and time, bywhich the control their budgets, timing and manage their own
customers.

We operate a common gated process through 6 defined milestones:
Ideas
Feasibility
Design
Development and test
Ready to launch
Project close and lessons learnt

The templates are stage plans that lead upto the milestones and encompass
those lead up events. 6 milestones hence 6 templates (although a PM is not
assigned until the stage 2 plan). The templates are layed out in 3 sections
(although a program/project hierarchical outline structure is also observed).

The 3 sections are:

Dependancies - what is the plan dependant on to kick it off, otherwise
described as the 'Enablers'.

Stage plan to Milestone - this is the task area of the template and includes
the necessary deliverables to the program. The body of work that leads to
the common outcome. Below each of the stage activities is where the PM deep
dives the workload and elaborates the detail of work to be carried out.
Making section 2 the only resourced area of the plan using a 'Cental' or
enterprise resource pool.

Deliverables - those outputs from the Staging/work area of the template (all
milestones, a sort of tick off area to show achievment.

There are still some areas that are a little grey to me at the moment but
then I only started here 3 weeks ago. Although much has been achieved in
this time there is still a long way to go. For example I have today been
tasked with researching MS EPM so in which direction we end up moving in is
(in the best traditions of project management) TBD

Andy.

Just for my own edification as in my classes the discussion often arises of
what are the PM's responsibilities, I'm curious about the roll people
designated as "Project Managers" play in your organization and how they're
going to be using the templates you're building. Are they people with real
design and planning functions with decision making and management control
authority, inrteracting with senior managment in deciding on the budgets,
analysing work requirements and deciding what work is required and what is
not, coordinating with the subject matter experts actually design the
project workflow, hiring and firing resources, carrying signature authority
on project-related expenses, that sort of thing, or is their role more
administrative with the analysts in the role of deciding what or if things
need to be done, that sort of thing? I tend to think of the project manager
as the person interacting with senior managemnt deciding whether the project
is feasible and if it fits into the organization's overall objectives, and
if so, the PM is then the one responsible for designing and creating the
project from the ground up, deciding what needs to be done in what manner
and who is to do it in order to meet the firms strategic goals. Since by
definition projects are unique endeavors with every one being different from
every other one to a greater or lesser extent, it seems that it would be
really difficult to come up with workable detailed templates - generic
templates outlining the broad phases and common tasks perhaps, but when you
get to the level of estimated task durations etc I just don't see how it
would be possible to make up a reusable template that actually means
anything.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Thanks Steve,

I fully understand what you are saying and appreciate the detailed reply.
My comments on idiot-proofing the templates were a little sarcastic I
suppose, i.e. 'ever met a PM who wasn't an idiot when it comes to MSP?'
type
of thing [j/k].

The templates are generally in good shape but understanding a problem is
the
first step to avoiding it. Here, all the PMs have a review with me once a
fortnight where I can maintain the structure for senior reporting and
manage
any iregularities with the resource pool so I do have a degree of control.
But I am one planning analyst amoung 76 PMs so making the templates work
as
well as I can should pay dividends later on as well as ongoing training
and
increased project control which I am working on.

Thanks again,

Andy

Because the equation W=D*U must ALWAYS stay in balance, if the task type
is
Fixed Units and you change the units anyway, Project has to decide
whether
it's the Work or Duration that must also be adjusted. Since it's more
common for the work to be constant in the real world (it takes the same
amount of work to paint 100 square feet of wall regardless of how fast or
slowly the painters work on it) the default behaviour in the scenario you
pose is to treat the task as if it were Fixed Work and change the
duration.
This doesn't have anything to do with effort driven or not - the settings
of
effort driven versus non-effort driven only come into play when you add
bodies to or take them away from the task - when editing the resources
that
are there without changing the actual number of resources assigned the
effort driven setting are ignored.

Idiot proof templates in project management are an impossible dream. The
function of Project is to help decision makers predict the outcomes of
their
decisions. It is not a clerical tool and cannot be used passively - and
passive use where you just plug in the numbers for the template to
massage
while the template designer has done all the brain-work is what templates
are all about. Because it is such a powerful tool, the only way to idiot
proof it is to make sure that idiots aren't expected or allowed to use
it.
And that means the people who will be using it need to be properly
trained,
not only in how to "work the software" but also how it fits in the
overall
managment strategies of your organization. I'm a very strong believer
that
skills in Project cannot be learned by rote memory of procedures in "how
to
use the tool." Giving someone MS Project who does not have some
understanding of PM principles, some of the WHY Project works the way it
does, and how project managment methodology should be applied to meeting
the
objectives of the firm is tantamount to giving a child a loaded gun to
play
with.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



This has now thrown up another interesting development.

With the Task Type set to Fixed Units if I adjust the %effort on the
assigned resource it increases the duration to reflect this new
percentage
automatically. This doesn't happen if Task Type is set to Fixed
Duration
but
of course this has the other problem that we discussed with splitting
the
task. Do you think there is a setting to avoid this. Effort Driven is
unchecked btw.

This isn't as serious as the last issue as you can simply adjust the
duration back to what it was originally but it would be nice to set it
up
properly so giving less to worry about in adapting processes to
circumvent
it. Bearing in mind I need the templates to be fairly idiot proof.

Thanks,

Andy.

:

Well I'll be .... you're right. Hadn't discovered that behavior
before
and
frankly I don't quite know what to make of it.


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Well step by step, try the following:

Insert a task...
Right click to enter 'task info'...
on 'Advanced' tab set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Duration'...
Now introduce a split by right clicking the task bar in the Gantt,
but
keep
an eye on the duration. You will notice the duration increases to
include
the split/non-work duration also.

Now repeat but set 'Task Type' to 'Fixed Units' et voila, the split
is
introduced but the duration remains the same. Presumably as it now
includes
work effort as the measurable, as it should be (or at least how I
wanted
it).

It's a strange one for sure, I never encountered it before.
I hope this helps.

Andy.

:

That's funny, it doesn't do it on mine. I take a two week task and
split
it, introducing 1 week of down time in the middle. Now the total
elapsed
time on the task is three weeks but the duration column still reads
"2
wks"
because the downtime in the middle doesn't count for duration. I
mark
it
50% complete and the dark line runs through the first half. I mark
it
60%
complete and the dark line runs just into the second half a skoshe
and
shows
actual duration 6 days, remaining duration 4 days. Take us step by
step
exactly how you can recreate the problem if you can - I'm really
curiuous.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Hi Steve and John,

It is defintely the duration that I'm refering to against tasks
(not
summaries). If I introduce a split into any individual task the
duration
increases to encapsulate the over time including the split
portion
of
the
task. Furthermore, if I the increase the percentage complete it
calculates
based on the overall duration including the split. Given that
this
duration
is incorrect, 50% for example is somewhere in the middle of the
split
and
not
clearly reference in the gantts prgress.

I agree that it is not a template issue as I wrote them. It
would
appear
to
be a setting for project itself but I can't find it. I am new to
MSP
2003
but not to MSP itself which I have been using since 95 and most
recently
MSP2000.

Thanks for your responses,

Andy.

:

Are you sure you're notconfusing duration with elapsed time? A
split
will
increse the elapsed time between start and finish but not the
duration.
([Duration] = [Elapsed Time] - [Non-working Time])

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


Steve,

Hi btw, I have the reverse problem with project 2003 by which
I
mean
that
the split task increases the duration thus making the %
complete
of
say
50%
somewhere in the split portion of the task bar. I am using a
template
some
maybe it's a setting that I need to change. Can you tell me
how
to
change
this so that the duration does not increase when introducing a
split.

Kind regards,

AndyB

:

A task with 6 six hours of work spread out into 3 2-hour
segments
of
full-time work over 2 months is not a 2 month duration task.
It
is
a
6
hour
duration task. The time between segments is "off the books"
just
as
if