No pressure or anything! (HA!) (Long)

S

Steve House

This is not an exception - W=D*E still holds true. First remember that
duration from when work begins until it is done. Also remember that Project
does each resource's work calculations independently of any other resources.
If two resources are on a task and one starts later than the other or
finishes his part of the task before the other, the TASK duration is the
time between when the FIRST starting resource and the LAST finishing
resource. But when you view each resource separately, W=D*E always holds
true.

In your example, resource A is initially assigned, duration = 10 days and
work = 80 hours. Now B is added. The work is split and each resource does
40 hours of work, running in parallel. Each one works five days, the same
five days, so the task duration is also 5 days. But now you increase A to
200%. He still does 40 hours of work, but he does it twice as fast. He
finishes his share in 2.5 days and goes away. But B is still plugging away
at 100% with 2.5 days of work still to do. Total task duration remains at 5
days and the fact that A left after 2.5 days doesn't change it.

FYI - it's actually impossible for A to work at 200% unless he has two
heads. 100% means that in 8 hours of working time you get 8 hours worth of
full-time productivity output. 200% means that in 8 hours of working time
you'll get what takes a normal person 16 hours to accomplish. Unless A is
an aggregate resource consisting of more than one individual - 5 carpenters
represented in the resource list as a single entry "carpenters" with a max
avail of 500% - that's simply going to be physically impossible to achieve.
For a single worker, 100% is the maximum you can ever reasonably expect them
to do.

HTH


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



vikas said:
W=DxE has exceptions.
take a task. say duration = 10 days
assign resource A (100%), so work = 10 days
so far so good.
ensure task type is FIXED UNITS
ensure task is effort driven.
assign another resource B (100%)
work remains at 10days - good
duration reduces to 5 days - good
resource units = 200% (A and B)
so far so good..

NOW increase assigned units for A to 200%
total units 300% (A @ 200% and B @ 100%)

duration remains at 5 days, work remains at 10 days. WHY WHY WHY?

below is a cut and paste of from MS Project.

task name/dur/type/effort driven/work/resource names
task 5 days Fixed Units Yes 10 days "A[200%],B"

For Lamby, I would suggest, as the PM, you drive MSP, dont let MSP drive
you
(crazy). use KISS.

Regards,

Vikas
(e-mail address removed)




lamby74 said:
Thanks Steve. You and Dale both gave really thoughtful (and
time-consuming,
I am sure, ) answers. I am carefully studying both of your responses and
will be showing them to my boss shortly. I'll let you know how it all
turns
out.
In the meantime, I welcome more opinions. The more upfront and honest
(even
if hard-edged) the better.

Thanks all.
 
V

vikas

Hi Steve,
Thanks. After writing the post, I was playing with the problem, and then saw
the work for each resoure in the 'resource usage view'. That actually
explains.
Thanks again.

Regards,

Vikas



Steve House said:
This is not an exception - W=D*E still holds true. First remember that
duration from when work begins until it is done. Also remember that Project
does each resource's work calculations independently of any other resources.
If two resources are on a task and one starts later than the other or
finishes his part of the task before the other, the TASK duration is the
time between when the FIRST starting resource and the LAST finishing
resource. But when you view each resource separately, W=D*E always holds
true.

In your example, resource A is initially assigned, duration = 10 days and
work = 80 hours. Now B is added. The work is split and each resource does
40 hours of work, running in parallel. Each one works five days, the same
five days, so the task duration is also 5 days. But now you increase A to
200%. He still does 40 hours of work, but he does it twice as fast. He
finishes his share in 2.5 days and goes away. But B is still plugging away
at 100% with 2.5 days of work still to do. Total task duration remains at 5
days and the fact that A left after 2.5 days doesn't change it.

FYI - it's actually impossible for A to work at 200% unless he has two
heads. 100% means that in 8 hours of working time you get 8 hours worth of
full-time productivity output. 200% means that in 8 hours of working time
you'll get what takes a normal person 16 hours to accomplish. Unless A is
an aggregate resource consisting of more than one individual - 5 carpenters
represented in the resource list as a single entry "carpenters" with a max
avail of 500% - that's simply going to be physically impossible to achieve.
For a single worker, 100% is the maximum you can ever reasonably expect them
to do.

HTH


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



vikas said:
W=DxE has exceptions.
take a task. say duration = 10 days
assign resource A (100%), so work = 10 days
so far so good.
ensure task type is FIXED UNITS
ensure task is effort driven.
assign another resource B (100%)
work remains at 10days - good
duration reduces to 5 days - good
resource units = 200% (A and B)
so far so good..

NOW increase assigned units for A to 200%
total units 300% (A @ 200% and B @ 100%)

duration remains at 5 days, work remains at 10 days. WHY WHY WHY?

below is a cut and paste of from MS Project.

task name/dur/type/effort driven/work/resource names
task 5 days Fixed Units Yes 10 days "A[200%],B"

For Lamby, I would suggest, as the PM, you drive MSP, dont let MSP drive
you
(crazy). use KISS.

Regards,

Vikas
(e-mail address removed)




lamby74 said:
Thanks Steve. You and Dale both gave really thoughtful (and
time-consuming,
I am sure, ) answers. I am carefully studying both of your responses and
will be showing them to my boss shortly. I'll let you know how it all
turns
out.
In the meantime, I welcome more opinions. The more upfront and honest
(even
if hard-edged) the better.

Thanks all.

:

I'm not sure on the task splitting you're getting because I don't have
specific information to work with but some general considerations.

No offense intended but IMO you DON'T know what the timeline is. What
you
know is what you HOPE the timeline might be, wishful thinking without
basis
in fact. If Project is telling you something different from what you
expect, Project's version is more likely to be a valid predictor of
what's
going to happen when you go out and try to have resources actually do
the
work.

The fundamental problem seems to be that your boss wants to tell
Project
what the timeline will be. That's getting it backwards, IMHO.
Project's
fundamental job is to tell HIM what timeline he can reasonably expect
to
achieve given what needs to be done, the amount of work each part of it
will
take, and the assets he has at his disposal to do it. He doesn't tell
Project the timeline; Project tells HIM the timeline that will result
from
what he has input as the tasks and resources. If its results don't make
him
happy, he can't just kludge it to make it look better by,say, turning
off
recalculation, he actually has to change the input - change the project
scope, obtain more resources, find ways to work more efficiently, look
for
sequenced tasks that could be done in parallel, etc. If he chooses not
to
pay attention, he's trying to force a square peg down a round hole and
it's
very likely the project will fail.

W=D*E is not an approximation or a watered-down generality, that is
exactly
how Project calculates in every single instance. No exceptions. The
task
type influences it in the sense that any linear equation has an
independent
variable, a dependent variable, and a constant. We have a task
estimated at
5 day and assign someone to it who works 8 hours per day giving 100% of
their attention to it. That means the work required to create that
task's
deliverable is 40 man-hours. Now I'm going to change something. What
factors in my equation are the variables and what factor is the
constant?
If it's constant work, I can change the duration and have project
calculate
the percentage or change the percentage and have project recalculate
the
duration. In most cases I think that is the appropriate setting because
work
usually takes what it's going to take and there's not a lot of control
you
have over it. If it usually takes me a month to write a program
module
it's not likely I can do one in 2 weeks just because someone says I
have to,
at least not and maintain quality. Or I can choose to hold the
duration
constant or hold the percentage constant. What determines the setting?
My
understanding of the nature of the work and the resources assigned to
it.

If your boss has set up a timeline and it gets scrambled when you
assign
resources, that is telling you something valuable. What it is telling
you
is that when you have your resources work according to the way you want
to
assign them, that timeline is unrealistic. Project is telling him what
he
will GET, not just parroting what he wants. If what it calculates
after
assigning resources is not what he wants the project to be and the
model is
otherwise valid with regard to links etc, he has to do one of two
things -
either change his expectations or re-think the resource assignments.
(You
might show him this message so he doesn't blame you for the bad news
<grin>.) If he is unwilling to do either, IT IS VERY LIKELY THE
PROJECT
WILL FAIL!!!! The reason Project does what it does is to alert you to
that
fact early enough to have a chance of doing something to prevent it.

Work can only takes place when resources are there, available to work,
and
not otherwise committed to other conflicting tasks. That seems obvious
but
it is a point often overlooked by eager bosses. If Bill is scheduled
to be
on holiday Monday and he is assigned to a task currently scheduled for
Monday, the task must move to Tuesday so its schedule changes to
conform to
when he is going to be there. Non-working time is not scheduled around
the
task requirements unless you do it manually, editing the resource
calendar
to move nonworking time that is causing tasks to shift unacceptably to
days
that work better for you; tasks are scheduled around resource
non-working
time as defined by the calendar. Secondly, resources cannot be in 2
places
at once. If I have task A on Monday and also task B and I assign Bill
to
both of them and expect him to devote 100% attention to each, he simply
cannot do it. The assignment percentage defines how much work out we
get
for each hour of time put in and while we might get less than the
maximum we
can never get more. In one hour of duration it is physically
impossible for
one person to generate more than one man-hour's worth of work output.
If
the person is scheduled for 100% on Task A for Monday and also
scheduled
100% for Task B, also on Monday, it is impossible for that to be worked
as
planned. You might publish such a schedule but when the time comes to
do
the work, he WILL be late for one or both of the tasks, guaranteed!
That's
what Project is trying to tell your boss only he doesn't seem to want
to
hear it. So how does Project resolve the situation? It moves one of
those
tasks to Tuesday (assuming the resource is free) when you trigger
leveling.
Your original schedule asked for 16 man-hours of work from one person
during
an 8 hour duration, an impossibility - the new one calls for 16
man-hours of
work to be produced during a 16 hour duration period, something that
*is*
possible for one person to do. Another option is to edit the resource
assignment level so he's working 50% on each task, thus extending the
ending
of both of them from Monday to the end of the day Tuesday, again
resulting
in 16 total man-hours of work being done in a 16 hour time period. A
third
option is to take the guy off of one of the tasks and find someone else
who
is presently idle to pick it up. Or finally just not do one of the
tasks
altogether, drop it completely from the plan, if you can get away with
it.
Anything else, the project will fall behind no matter what your
timeline
says.

You *can* be in complete control of the timeline but you can't just
arbitrarily pull time frames out of thin air and expect them to happen.
As
I've said in other posts, the command "Number One, make it so!" only
works
in the Star Trek movies. For the real world those timelines are driven
by
physical processes, not executive fiat, and to control the timeframe
you
must manipulate the factors behind it that actually affect it. If I
have to
assemble 100 widgets, one person can do a maximum of 10 a day, I only
have
one assembler on the payroll, and my budget won't allow overtime, it
will
take at least 10 days no matter whether you like it or not. If I need
it in
5 to meet a contract deadline, my only options are to get a second
assembler
somewhere or spend the money for overtime. Just plucking a mandate out
of
thin air and declaring that I'll have the guy do 20 a day just simply
won't
work.

Hope this helps ...
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



an addendum to my initial post....
my boss wants to be able to show that recources are assigned to
tasks, but
have us be in complete control of the overall timeline.
He is frustrated because he can set up an initial timeline and get
really
neat looking reports, but that once we "throw resources at it" MSP,
OR
make
any changes at all to anything after that initial set up, MSP behaves
unpredictable and messes up our timeline. He is confident in the
software
only from the DAY 1 set up.
 
S

Saviz

Hi Lamby,

You may want to buy and read this book:Dynamic Scheduling with Microsoft
Office Project 2003: The Book by and for Professionals (Paperback)
by Eric Uyttewaal

I have been in your situation myself but after reading the book project made
more sense..

Tips:
- have a solid version control so you can go back if you need.
- Use project 2007, with this version if you make a change on a date for
example all the affected tasks are automatically highlighted.
- Use Remaining Duration/Actual Duration to add progress and control duration.
- Put time on analysing the dependencies and use FS as much as possible.
- Identify major drivers/critical tasks and keep an eye on them.

I am personally responsible for schedules in our company, note that we dont
use resources in our schedule and simply track schedule based on dates,
adding resources will make the updating the schedule extremely difficult
specially with big schedule my schedule has over 2000 tasks.

Good Luck
 
M

Michelle Moulliet

Hopefully, the original poster of this chain has found some peace with his
dilemmas. For anyone else with similar dilemmas, Dan Renier's presentation
is an excellent easily digestible breakdown of your responsibilities vs. the
tool's responsibility. Here is the link.

http://www.nwaitp.org/images/MCG_YJTJ_Presentation_Slides.ppt

Even if you are an experienced Project user, the way he details roles point
by point is a great help to explain to a stubborn, overbearing or just plain
old flustered boss.

Good luck to any of you having similar issues.

MM
 
J

Jan De Messemaeker

Hi,

This is not necessarily most useful when presented to the boss.
It is THE message to give to Project Leaders: in my world, a MAJORITY of
them hates Project because IT MAY CHANGE START AND FINISH TIMES.

But indeed, it's nicely put!

--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
+32 495 300 620
For availability check:
http://users.online.be/prom-ade/Calendar.pdf
 

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