Setting that stops a Date from being fixed

[tshad]

I found that if I put any amount in the %Complete field the Start and End
dates lock. Such that if I change the duration of task before the task with
the locked date, it won't recalculate the date. The same behavior if I add
a task before it - it won't recalculate. I need it to recalculate.

Is there a way to get it to recalculate the start and end dates even if
there is anything in the %Complete field?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Hi,

First, End dates will recalculate as long as %complete is less than 100, at
least when the task can split.
But ming you, Project is made to recalculate a plan, not to rewrite recorded
history.
And when you enter % complete without changing the start date that one
becomes recorded history.
By the way, do you want Project to show reality? If yes it behaves normally
If you want it to show any date you think fit, don't enter Actual data such
as %complete...
This being said, when you have the option "Split in Progress Tasks" on, the
unfinished part of the task WILL move - Project is ready to plan everything
which is not recorded history.

HTH

 

[tshad]

What I am trying to do is set up a simple plan simply.

I am not concerned with when a project starts or ends other then how it
relates to calculating duration of the project. I am the only person
working on these projects so I am not concerned with resources and Scope is
not important. And I am not concerned with cost so earned values are not
important. The reason that dates are not important is that I am setting up
multiple Software projects at work that have no end date per se. For
example: I have about 4 projects I am working at the moment. All have
about 15-50 tasks when they start up.

What I am concerned with is the approximate time it would take to finish the
project just to get an idea of what to expect. I jump from project to
project as priorities change - so trying to use start dates or end dates for
anything other than to calculate duration is really pointless.

There is no timecard. I just want to use a % done type of calculations (was
using either % Work Complete or % Complete). Something like task 5 is 50%
complete or 75% or 100%. Not actual hours - just an indication on the
progress of the task based on whether it is done or not - not based on the
duration that was specified. I can look at the graph on the Gnatt chart and
tell how much is done and not done. I can also look at the %Complete in
each Summary Task including the Project Summary.

As we go in the project, I want to be able to add a task and have it push
the task after it further right (there are no overlapping tasks). What I
found was that the Dates were becoming fixed an then prevented the task from
moving which messed up the % Completed Calculations and graph display.

The only thing I really display for my boss is the Gnatt chart that shows
only Task Name, Duration, % Completed and Timeline (which shows how much has
been done at this point). He can look at the Graph to see how the tasks are
progressing as well as the % Completed in the respective tasks and/or
Summaries.

This actually does show reality. It shows approximately how long a project
will take (not when it will finish). As we do our projects, we find that we
need to add a new feature (would normally be Scope creep but in our case we
are not concerned with this) because a client asks for it or we decide it
doesn't flow the way we thought it would or we just feel that things have
changed.

Maybe Project can't do this, I don't know.

As I said, it did it fine until we add the requirement of added a new task
after the project has started (or change a duration).

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Hi,

Some comments, if you allow.
First, and this has nothing to do with he Proeject product, I personally
would systematically introduce Actual duration and remaining duration rather
than % finished.
OBTW, I do exactly what you do - just duration, no work.
Second, Project or not, in my view when a task has started in the past no
tool should change its start date.
That has happened, full stop, I will not start over.
And when I start over I'l put % complete to zero.

But have you applied what I suggested? Tools, Options, Calculation, "Split
In process tasks" onj
Because that IS THE SETTING YOU ARE LOOKING FOR
When you insert and link a new task as you describe, the part that is done
on a successor task will not change so the start date will not change
(supposing you are married, you may or may not regret your marriage date but
any new task now will no more change it) BUT THE REMAINDERWILL BE
RESCHEDULED - isn't that what you need?

No tool wilth a minimum of logic in it will react otherwise.

 

[tshad]

Hi,

Some comments, if you allow.
First, and this has nothing to do with he Proeject product, I personally
would systematically introduce Actual duration and remaining duration
rather than % finished.

That looks great.

I now have: Task Name, Duration, %Complete, Actual Duration, Remaining
Duration, Start and Finish (which I hide in my printouts as they aren't
important).

OBTW, I do exactly what you do - just duration, no work.

So how do you handle the work completed? Do you do it by % or hours?

Second, Project or not, in my view when a task has started in the past no
tool should change its start date.
That has happened, full stop, I will not start over.
And when I start over I'l put % complete to zero.

That is how I get it to reset. I print out the Gnatt chart so I can see
what the % Completed is. I then go and zero out all the % Completed fields
and the program recalculates everything. I then go down the % Completed
fields and re-add back in the values that were there and the graph looks as
I want it to.

I agree with you on the philosophy of history - when started you can't start
over. But 2 issues with that:
1) In my case, date is not an issue. I am filling in the %Completed on the
day I start the work - just that I started the work. I may do it at the end
of the week or just before a meeting to show the progress. So the Start
Date is not accurate anyway. And my boss is not interested in when I
started the tasks just how much work is done.

2) I just noticed that when I first enter a value into the % Completed
Field, it fixes the date on the date that is in the field not the date I
enter it. For example in my sample project, I have a task that shows the
Start Date as 3/14/07. I just now added 10% into the % Completed field. If
the Start Date, for historical purposes, were important. It should change
that date to 03/02/07. But it doesn't. It still shows as 03/14/07. Even
on the Actual Start Date column. I can fix that by manually changing the
date to 03/02/07. But then that is the point at which I would expect it to
fix the date - because I manually entered. It is fixing it to an estimated
incorrect date. So allowing it to recalculate is shouldn't really be an
issue. The graph would also be confusing as it shows that I started on
03/14/07 (which I didn't). Now if I add a task before it that has a
duration of 20 days, the start date will still be 03/14/07 but there is now
a dotted line to where the end of the task I just added and then rest of the
old task (is this the Split in process Task you were talking about?). If I
add another 40% to the %Completed it would show the work done in the split
section of the task on the right. If I add another task before this task
again, it splits it again and leaves the piece completed where it was and
moves the rest of the task to the right.

Actually, I kind of like that now that I look at it a bit. But the splits
are not based on the date the work is done but based on where the previous
tasks End Date was.

Just an observation.

But have you applied what I suggested? Tools, Options, Calculation, "Split
In process tasks" onj

Can't find it. I see all kinds of fields but on the Calculation Tab but I
can't find the "Split In Process tasks". What does it do? Does it do what
I saw above with the graph example? Maybe it is the default and is
somewhere else now after SP2.

Because that IS THE SETTING YOU ARE LOOKING FOR
When you insert and link a new task as you describe, the part that is done
on a successor task will not change so the start date will not change
(supposing you are married, you may or may not regret your marriage date
but any new task now will no more change it) BUT THE REMAINDERWILL BE
RESCHEDULED - isn't that what you need?

When you say the Remainder are you talking about the End Date and/or the
Graph with the dots between the splits?

I am definately learning a lot about Project here.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Hi Tom,

Your option to split must be on, and what you see (and do not like) is what
I thought you needed.
And sorry,, the option is in Tools, Options, schedule instead of
Calculation... I always mess up those two.


I'm glad you are finding a process you like, but I'm still at a complete
loss here.
What's the point of registering a % complete if afterwards you move that
anyway? Is is done or not done?
I like a tool that at least tries to simulate reality not just a set of
calculation rules I make up, sorry.
And in my world done is done, shouldn't move any more.
About fixing the start date where it was.
How can project know the start date was any other date if you don't tell it?

Try to think away from %complete (something I never never never enter), it
is the result of a calculation but it should not be the start of one as it
leaves all questions about the work done open: Project fills them with
defaults but those are only defaults. And the default for actual start is
the planned start..; I fail to see what would be a better default.

And for someone who doesn't stop repeating dates are not important, you put
quite a lot of attention to Actual start.

Indeed, I personally attach a lot of attention to dates (as does your boss
if I understand you right) but ONLY dates in the future. That is why I like
the way Project has with those split tasks...

Greetings,

 

[tshad]

Hi Tom,

Your option to split must be on, and what you see (and do not like) is
what
I thought you needed.

Actually, I assumed it was on (and it is).

I actually do like it as I said after looking at it.

And sorry,, the option is in Tools, Options, schedule instead of
Calculation... I always mess up those two.

I would never be able to remember where all the options are myself.

I'm glad you are finding a process you like, but I'm still at a complete
loss here.
What's the point of registering a % complete if afterwards you move that
anyway?

I also put it back to done. It is just that I don't care about the when it
was started. Just what the status is. How much of it is done.

The split does what I want - as you rightly said. What was happening before
SP2, and what started the whole problem, was that if I added a task or
changed a duration before a task that was started - all the start dates
would be wrong because the dates of all the tasks that followed a task that
was started was based on that task. If that task didn't change - than none
of the tasks after it would change. Now that is not the case. It may be
that I didn't have the split on or maybe it wasn't available (not sure).

Is is done or not done?

It is done - just that I wanted the graph to show it inline with the other
tasks. Even though each task depended on the task before it (in my case), I
will not necessarily work on it in that order (as would not happen if you
have a team working on different tasks at the same time).

I like a tool that at least tries to simulate reality not just a set of
calculation rules I make up, sorry.
And in my world done is done, shouldn't move any more.

But that was my point. It isn't reality. The actual start date that gets
fixed is not the current date - but the date that the system calculated when
the project was built. As I mentioned in my last post, the date on the task
I was setting as started had a start date of 3/14/07. The date it should
have had for a start date would be the current date (3/2/07). That is
reality. If you look at the graph it looks like the task was started 2
weeks from now. That isn't reality, is it?

No difference from moving it. The status of the job is still started or
finished (that doesn't change) just the date, which is ambiguous anyway.
Now if you actually modify the date to the correct date or use the Resource
Usage sheet (which sets the actual start date to the current date, I think),
then that would be more like reality.

In my case, I also might set the task as started or finished a week after it
is done which would have the wrong date also (and I probably wouldn't
remember exactly which date I started on anyway).

About fixing the start date where it was.
How can project know the start date was any other date if you don't tell
it?

I agree. But I am just putting the %Completed from the Gnatt Chart and not
opening the Task Information screen to input the percent complete. I would
have thought it might use the current date if you don't put it in - but it
doesn't. But again not important to me.

Try to think away from %complete (something I never never never enter), it
is the result of a calculation but it should not be the start of one as it
leaves all questions about the work done open: Project fills them with
defaults but those are only defaults. And the default for actual start is
the planned start..; I fail to see what would be a better default.

And for someone who doesn't stop repeating dates are not important, you
put
quite a lot of attention to Actual start.

No. I was just making a point about reality. And if you are putting the
actual start date manually or allowing the system to put the date in from
the Resource Usage sheet then my point doesn't really apply. I was going by
my case where I am just change the %Completed and the system is using an
amiguous date (which is not important to me as you say). As I say and you
say I say (that's a lot of says) the date isn't import, which is why I
wouldn't put the Actual Start Date in.

Indeed, I personally attach a lot of attention to dates (as does your boss
if I understand you right) but ONLY dates in the future. That is why I
like
the way Project has with those split tasks...

Actually, he isn't concerned with dates just the status of the tasks. In my
case, I am working on different projects which change priority all the time,
so the dates a particular task is started is not important.

Thanks,

Tom