Schedule from End Date

H

Hadi

I want to build a schedule. I want to build it like this:

- Have a task at the end of the project that has a must start constraint.
- I want to be able to move the this last task around and see what would be
the latest date I can start the project to meet the start date i set. Is
there a way of doing that without setting up project to schedule from the
finish date. I thought I can do that by showing the late start date on all
the activities and have it change as I move the last task around. help plz I
have a deadline next tuesday and I would like to have an idea of how to do
this.
 
J

JackD

Why not set the project to schedule from the finish date? All it takes is a
few clicks. Then you can switch it back. The alternative of looking at late
finish is a good one too.
 
H

Hadi

The problem is I have about 35 mpp files and each file has about 20 projects
in it. Not all of the projects need to be scheduled from the end so I was
trying to find a way around it so I dont have to rebuild all of the files
 
R

Rod Gill

I would never schedule from a finish date, because by default that means all
tasks start as late as possible, so they're all critical. That is for sure a
project that will finish late!!

I always schedule from the earliest date I can start and set a deadline on
the last task to finish. The Indicator column shows a red diamond if the
date can't be met.
 
H

Hadi

when I set a must finish date on the last task none of the tasks above it
move with it when I lets say change the deadline??
 
J

Jan De Messemaeker

Hi Hadi,

Go back to your original idea.
Last task is Must start of finish on (deadline won't do!) and if and when
your tasks are linked, latest start and finish dates will move (unless there
are links tto other finish tasks taht are stronger!)
HTH
 
H

Hadi

Jan,

That does not seem to work very well, do I change it schedule from the
finish date or keep it from the start date. If I put it from the start date
and start to change the must start or finish date on the last task nothing
above it will change. the task above it will just show a slak line and wont
move.
 
R

Reid McTaggart

The tasks *appear* not to be changing because you are looking at standard
Gantt bars that are based on the Start and Finish dates. You need to define
a custom Gantt bar that will display the Late Start and Late Finish dates.
Those dates definitely will move in the scenario you describe, and given the
assumptions that Jan and others have cited.
 
J

Jan De Messemaeker

Hi,

Let's note that in the original post, Hadi himself suggested to look at
latest start and finish dates - I'm afraid he lost that good idea since
then. He hasd the solution from the start :))
 
S

Steve House [Project MVP]

It sounds like what you want to do is see what the latest possible date you
might start would be and still finish the project by a certain end date.
Remember you can switch the "schedule from" entry in the Project Information
menu back and forth between scheduling from start and scheduling from finish
as many times as you want. I'd lay out my schedule from the start date and
let the finish fall where it may - I find it's easier to think about what
needs to be done and what order to do them if you're thinking start to
finish. After I've created the project task outline itlself and linked the
tasks into the order they need to be done, I'd switch to "schedule from
finish", enter the required finish date, and see where it put the start
date. Now switch back the "schedule from start" and you'll see that it will
have reset the start date for you to the latest possible date you could
start and still meet the required finish. That would be the theoretical
latest possible start date but I'd never wait until that date to begin work.
If you did, and something caused any task to get delayed - and you can count
on the fact that something will always get delayed - it would mean that your
project would finish late. So I'd pick a reasonable start date sooner than
the latest possible start date reset the start to the date I'd picked.
Meanwhile I'd put a deadline on the finish task of the required finish date
so if something happens that will make me miss that deadline it'll get red
flagged early enough for me to do something to fix it.

There's some differences of opinion about this but I'd never, ever, use a
"must finish on" or "must finish no later than" constraint to represent the
date the project needs to be done. The reason is that the constraint DOES
NOT mean "this is when it is supposed to happen." Rather, it means "this is
when it WILL happen" and instructs Project to lock it onto that date and
display it happening then regardless of anything else we do in organizing
the schedule! Since the reason for using scheduling software in the first
place is to figure out how to organize your project to meet your business
objectives, I suggest it's usefullness is severely compromised if you
disable its ability to tell you if you're succeeding or failing. It seems
logical to me that if you've screwed up and organized the work in such a way
as to have the project finish several weeks past your required finish date,
the software should tell you that you blew it by placing the calculated
finish where your plan will have it fall and not lie to you and tell you
it's on time when it won't be. Using a constraint instead of a deadline in
effect tells Project to lie to you by locking the displayed finish date to
the date you said you wanted. So why is the constraint option even there?
Because there might be things happening in the project that really do happen
on a certain timeframe that is fixed and not influenced by anything in the
project schedule. Christmas Day really is a fixed date that happens on 25
Dec and nothing we do in arranging our project's work is going to change it.
Constraints lets you model that reality. But you simply can't say that the
project actual finish is not going to be influenced by the way the project's
work is organized and I suggest the plan should predict what you're going to
get and not just parrot back what you want to get.
 
H

Hadi

Steve, Thank you for your excellent post. I switched between having MS
project schedule from the start date and the finish date and saw the latest
date I can start the project. I want to be able to change the deadline for
the last task and see the start date moving as I change the deadline but that
does not seem to change as I change the deadline.
 
S

Steve House [Project MVP]

Don't change the deadline date. Instead, change the project finish date in
the project information screen.
 
H

Hadi

Jan,

I built a dummy project to test the late finish idea and it seems to be
working great when I change the must finish date. That does not seem to be
working on my project I am not sure why, do you know if there is
something,other than constraints, that is preventing the late start date from
changing. it is always the same as the start date.
 
H

Hadi

That means I have to switch between schedule from start date and finish date
everytime I want to change the finish date right??
 
J

Jan De Messemaeker

Hi,

Do tasks have actual start dates?
In case of doubt you can send me the dubious file, my addrss is on my
website.
 
S

Steve House [Project MVP]

Yes, but why would you need to do it more than once or twice? Finding the
last possible start date that lets you hit a certain finish date is an
interesting academic exercise but it is an incredibly risky way to schedule
and manage the project. Doing so means that if anything goes wrong,
anything at all, anywhere along the line, you have blown it and will finish
late. Wisdom dictates that you start well BEFORE the latest possible start
date so that there is a cushion to absorb those inevitable delays that are
absolutely guaranteed to occur. It's fine to schedule backwards to find the
absolutely latest date you could possibly begin, but you should then switch
to scheduling forward from start and select a convenient and realistic start
date somewhat in advance of the latest date you've just determined as the
date where you'll actually begin work. When you do, your finish milestone
will pull forward to show you where you'll finish given that start date IF
everything goes perfectly. With a deadline date entered, you'll also have a
marker somewhat later on the timeline to show a reminder of the required
date and you can see at a glance how much "cushion" you have between where
it looks like you'll finish and where you absolutely, positively HAVE to
finish. If delays move the finish milestone too close to the deadline for
comfort, or G*d forbid, PAST the deadline, you know you need to exercise
some management controls - call in overtime, for example - to shorten up
some of the predecessor tasks and pull the finish milestone back from the
brink. That's a major reason I don't like using the "must finish on"
constraint - if you do, the plan will always show the milestone on the
required date EVEN IF you're running terribly late. The timeline always
says you're right on schedule even when you're not.

Jan and I have an on-going friendly disagreement between colleagues about
this but I'm absolutely NOT a fan of using a "must finish on" constraint on
the finish milestone instead of the deadline entry. He's absolutely correct
in that if you run the slack time reports and look for negative slack you
can make the same determination - but for me, that's jumping through
relatively obscure hoops - I like to see a dynamic Gantt chart with fluid
dates that predict where tasks are actually going to fall if I deploy my
assets in a certain way and a big red DANGER diamond indicator showing up
next to the task names if a task is missing a required target date. But for
me it's crucial that the date that's being displayed is the real date we'll
obtain if our resources work the way we've scheduled them, for better or for
worse. Using the constraint means the milestone will always be shown on the
desired date, whether or not your working schedule will actually have it end
up there. IMHO, that finish milestone needs to be able to move forward and
backward in response to changes in the plan leading up to it - showing me
where it WILL fall IF things go as presently outlined. If it doesn't fit, I
can't just move it to the desired date with a constraint, I have to do
something more concrete and reschedule the resource's work to adjust the
plan to make it fit the requirements. Once we start work, I also want it to
move around as I post progress, keeping me posted on where we're going and
telling me the date we will be finished if things continue going as they
have been up until now, whether we're gaining or losing with respect to the
original predicted finish date. If it doesn't meet my needs, I need to
change the events leading up to it until it does and I can't just use a
constraint to force it to the desired date because that's fudging the
program, pretending I've got money in the bank when in fact I'm seriously
overdrawn.

Such differences of "expert opinion" is why they hold horse races <grin> and
why PM is as much an art as it is a science.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
 
H

Hadi

Steve,

with the help of Jan, I was able to move my end date and see the late start
and late finish dates move with it so I got what I need for that part. The
other question I have now is would I be able to have my resources follow the
late dates not the start and finish dates. Basically, I want to see if I
shift my end dates, how would that affect my resources??

Thanks
 
S

Steve House [Project MVP]

What are you trying to see? Usually in MS Project the task schedules follow
the resource's availability, not the other way around. So what do you mean
by "have your resources follow the late dates?" The task start date is the
date you're going to tell the resource to show up ready to do a certain job.
The finish date is the date you expect him to be finished by. The late
start and late finish dates are the latest dates you COULD possibly get away
with doing the task without delaying the project's completion but I can't
imagine why you'd ever want to intentionally put off doing the task to the
last possible moment, telling the resource to show up on the late start date
instead of the start date. You need to have some leeway in the schedule to
absorb unforseen events.
 

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